73 replies to this topic

[newtoolsmith]

I bought it at the"Raiffaisen Landhandel" store.

I dont know where you come from but try to find a store, where farmers buy their fertilizer, seed and utilities.

There you will find HNO3 as cleaner for milking machines.

MfG
newtoolsmith

[Anders Greenman]

Agricultural stores are probably the best choice when hunting for acids. They're cheap, and easily aviable, but might refuse to sell to the common man.
To the nitrate synthesis. I've tried to make both strontium and barium chloride with hydrochloric acid and it worked out wery well exept from the smell. It's really annoying and requires very good ventilation or even better, outside with a strong breeze. Even then, the smell is stronger than anything.
I've also tried making barium acetate with acetic acid. The latter method works out much better since it's not that violent but fast enough to please the most of us (i'd use 35%). I'l try to make nitrate tomorrow i think and then, with external heating instead of just waiting for the water to evaporate.

[Bonny]

Hi fishy1,

I didnt read the early posts but I found you asked how to convert strontium carbonate to strontium nitrate.

Well, I did it by using nitric acid, 6.02mol/liter - I think this is approx 35%. This was very cheap, approximately 8 Euro for 20 Litres.

The carbonates ( Sr and Ba) were bought in a ceramic suppliers store, very cheap also, lets say 2.5 Euro per kilo.

In sumary, the nitrates had cost under 3 Euro per kilo.
You can calculate how much acid you need for the wanted amount of carbonate to convert or backwards.
I always used 4 litres of acid and added the needed amount of carbonate.
Take some more carbonate to prevent acid to be left after the reaction. The excess carbonate wont dissolve when the solution is heated and can be filtered off.

Always wear gloves, glasses and plastic cloth to prevent contact with acid drops.

The reactionproduces huge amounts of CO2 gas wich makes lots of foam and little acid drops. This will ruin a concrete floor, so spreed out a plastic foil before.

Put only a small amount of carbonate into the acid. Lets say a teespoon full. It would bubble too much otherwise.

To evaporate the water formed during the reaction and contained in the acid, I used an electric single heater. It took only a few hours - and I made over 10kg Sr(NO3)2 and Ba(NO3)2. I would never be able to wait days, weeks or even months!

Last but not least: BE CAREFUL WITH ACIDS!!

MfG
newtoolsmith

Hi,

I'm new to pyrotechnics but have been reading a lot on this site for quite awhile. Barium nitrate is very hard to find so I have been looking at making some. I attempted the acetic acid method, but only got a white colour.I plan on trying it again in a few months when the weather is warmer here. I have not found detailed instructions for the nitric acid method and would like to try it. I have read your post and and have some questions...
The reaction as I see it is : BaCO3 + 2HNO3 = Ba(NO3)2 + CO2 + H2O
When the carbonate has stopped dissolving and the reaction is complete, then in theory, all the acid has been converted and the solution should be barium nitrate in water? I assume the ph should be tested. Also, was heat used as a catalyst in the acid carbonate reaction?
Thanks,

[pyrotrev]

Yes, you're right, when the reaction stops all the acid should have been used up - but it would be a good idea to give it a stir and check the pH just to be sure. Be careful about heating the acid, the reaction will proceed more violently, increasing the risk of acid splashes! - it's not so much a catalyst, just the universal rule of reactions going 2x as fast per 10 deg temperature rise. And don't forget to read the sticky post on soluble barium salts - barium nitrate is POISONOUS - 1g could kill you - respect

[Bonny]

Yes, you're right, when the reaction stops all the acid should have been used up - but it would be a good idea to give it a stir and check the pH just to be sure. Be careful about heating the acid, the reaction will proceed more violently, increasing the risk of acid splashes! - it's not so much a catalyst, just the universal rule of reactions going 2x as fast per 10 deg temperature rise. And don't forget to read the sticky post on soluble barium salts - barium nitrate is POISONOUS - 1g could kill you - respect

Thanks pyrotrev. It would sure be nice if green colours could be made without barium...I have read about the dangers and am very careful, but I reminders are always a good thing, thanks. Is it possible, based on what you said that this reaction could be done without heating, or is some heat required? I would obviously prefer for safety reasons to not heat it at all but don't know if that will work. Also, when the reaction is complete should the ph be neutral or slightly alkaline? If the solution is till acidic I am assuming more barium carbonate is needed, as I have read this can be filtered out after.Sorry for so many questions,but I'm trying to learn as much as I can here before attempting this one...

[lew]

Hi,

I'm new to pyrotechnics but have been reading a lot on this site for quite awhile. Barium nitrate is very hard to find so I have been looking at making some. I attempted the acetic acid method, but only got a white colour.I plan on trying it again in a few months when the weather is warmer here. I have not found detailed instructions for the nitric acid method and would like to try it. I have read your post and and have some questions...
The reaction as I see it is : BaCO3 + 2HNO3 = Ba(NO3)2 + CO2 + H2O
When the carbonate has stopped dissolving and the reaction is complete, then in theory, all the acid has been converted and the solution should be barium nitrate in water? I assume the ph should be tested. Also, was heat used as a catalyst in the acid carbonate reaction?
Thanks,

I have seen some barium nitrate for sale on ebay recently. or you could give www.hobbychem.co.uk a shout.
You cant beat it for good greens.

[spanner]

I'm curious to know if anyone who has been working with this has had good results to report. And to ask if there's a rule of thumb one can follow as to how many recrystallization are necessary to have a usable pyro-grade of barium nitrate.

I've got a small 15g estimated yield batch evaporating now, so any info is appreciated. In any event I'll post my findings when the experiment is finished.

FYI, eBay DOES have a listing for barium nitrate- $9.50/usd per 30g! This at least includes shipping inside the US, but ~$150/lb!?! The eBayer had something like 15 available, so he obviously hopes to make a profit from his one pound purchase.

Firefox has barium nitrate available to those who are stateside. With the hazmat fees, etc, the price delivered works out to ~$65.05 for 5lbs for their "custom milled" BaNO3.

Edited by spanner, 30 January 2007 - 04:38 PM.

[treefingers]

As conc nitric acid is hard to obtain in the UK I was wondering if any of you had any experience with an alternative synths for Strontium Nitrate from Strontium Carbonate.

I was thinking of using an excess of ammonium nitrate with strontium carbonate. The only products should be ammonia, water and carbon dioxide and as ammonium nitrate is more soluble than strontium nitrate, it will be easy to seperate by crystalisation. Do you think this is a possible alternative, if not any ideas?

[Mumbles]

I would actually suggest a bit differently. Use an excess of SrCO3. It is pretty much insoluble, and can just be filtered out. You also don't have to worry about it being even more hygroscopic than usual from any residual AN.

Edited by Mumbles, 01 February 2007 - 06:39 PM.

[treefingers]

My thought was that an excess of ammonium nitrate could be easily removed by gently heating the solution till decomposition takes place.

Edited by treefingers, 01 February 2007 - 10:27 PM.

[Mumbles]

Ammonium nitrate doesn't decompose in boiling water like ammonium carbonate, and perhaps ammonium chloride do.

[treefingers]

Ok cheers, will try with excess of SrCO3 then

[fishy1]

I still haven't got round to getting rid of the flies out of my ba(no3)2, so I might buy some. Is £20 a kilo for good quality stuff including postage and packaging ok or am I getting ripped?

[MMMMMM Pyro]

£20 a kilo isn't too bad,
Hobbychem comes out at £38 Kg. while keten is £5 Kg. Hope that that was of some use!

Regards,

Mike

[Bonny]

I tried adding BaCO3 to nitric acid but I ended up with a very thick milky white past in the container. I ran out of BaCO3 (before the reaction was complete) Tested with litmus and the milky paste is still acidic. I'm not sure how concentrated the nitric acid was, but I don't know what to do now..Could water be added to dilute the solution before adding more BaCO3?