76 replies to this topic

[lord_dranack]

Has anyone tried an Ammonium Chloride/Kcl03 smoke composition?

Watch out for the incompatability there- don't want to get any ammonium chlorate formed!

[Mumbles]

In addition to that, Ammonium chloride is acidic which will form some ClO2, which doesn't like organic things.

[Creepin_pyro]

Thanks for the words of warning guys - I certainly don't want any Ammonium Chlorate appearing : P

Are there any precautions I can take to avoid such situations, or would it be better to leave this composition alone alltogether?

[fishy1]

Thanks for the words of warning guys - I certainly don't want any Ammonium Chlorate appearing : P

Are there any precautions I can take to avoid such situations, or would it be better to leave this composition alone alltogether?

i suppose if you kept it 100% dry, then it might be "safer", but i'd just avoid it if i were you.

[Creepin_pyro]

So the formation of Ammonium Chlorate can only happen if the comp gets wet? If so, that's not a problem...

Mumbles - would you mind elaborating on your concerns... is it really such a bad idea to try out this smoke formula?

[fishy1]

So the formation of Ammonium Chlorate can only happen if the comp gets wet? If so, that's not a problem...

Mumbles - would you mind elaborating on your concerns... is it really such a bad idea to try out this smoke formula?

i don't mean wet like soaking, i mean a tiny bit wet, like moisture from the air.

Cl2O

[Mumbles]

Chlorine Dioxide can be prepared in the following manner.

2ClO3- + 2Cl- + 4H+ → 2ClO2 + Cl2 + 2H2O

When ammonium chloride is allowed to come into contact with moisture, it partially hydrolyses to form HCl. The rest speaks for itself from the above formula. Any strong acid happens to work as a matter of fact I believe. Sulfuric Acid was first used, thus the sulfur-chlorate incompatibility. It is chlorine dioxide that is the cause of premature ignition. It violently oxidises all organic molecules, and is commonly used to kill bacteria and viruses.

Chlorine dioxide is one of the strongest known biocides. It is used to treat water, and is used where strong biocides are needed. Specifically it is used to decontaminate buildings where anthrax is thought to be present, and I believe they are using it to kill off the mold in New Orleans after the hurricane.

I don't think it would neccesarily be bad to try, I just wouldn't store it. I don't think it would make any chlorine dioxide in the smoke. I am willing to bet the smoke is a lung irritant though. Keep your distance, and you should be fine.

[KNO3]

You say that fabric dyes can be used to dye smoke, ive so far been prety successfull with various grey smokes, (KNO3 + Sugar/Parafin Wax, and some Asphaltum + KClO3 based compositions) but have had no luck in finding a decent chemical supplyer for some dyes, it seems that almost all of them are kept a close guard on. So I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of finding suitible fabric dyes that I could use, I have looke myself, but im not an expert at dying clothes, and they do not say what form they come in. Thanks

[delta_echo]

You say that fabric dyes can be used to dye smoke, ive so far been prety successfull with various grey smokes, (KNO3 + Sugar/Parafin Wax, and some Asphaltum + KClO3 based compositions) but have had no luck in finding a decent chemical supplyer for some dyes, it seems that almost all of them are kept a close guard on. So I was wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of finding suitible fabric dyes that I could use, I have looke myself, but im not an expert at dying clothes, and they do not say what form they come in. Thanks

Not too much help, but there was a rumor going around the net of using Riit (I think thats how its spelled) clothing dyes. THIS DOES NOT WORK. It doesn't make much sense chemically nor have a ever heard of anyone successfully using them. Don't know where the rumor began, but it appears to be just that - a rumor. Aniline dyes are used with great effect, however, and are used outside the pyro field for wood staining.

[KNO3]

Not too much help, but there was a rumor going around the net of using Riit (I think thats how its spelled) clothing dyes. THIS DOES NOT WORK. It doesn't make much sense chemically nor have a ever heard of anyone successfully using them. Don't know where the rumor began, but it appears to be just that - a rumor. Aniline dyes are used with great effect, however, and are used outside the pyro field for wood staining.

Cheers, thanks for the warning, ill look into the Aniline dyes. Anybody elso know of any good smoke dyes?

[Bluehawk]

Contact Organic Dyestuffs Corporation, PO Box 14258, East Providence, Rhode Island 02914-0258
they will be happy to sell you any of their smoke dyes that are used in civilian and military smoke devices.
Not cheap but nice stuff!
The product is known as Orco Smoke.

[Bluehawk]

I took a peek at RookBommens site for cheap white smoke and saw his formula:
KNO3 50 grams
Sugar 50 grams
Paraffin 33 grams (fine powder)
seems simple enough EXCEPT what in the world is fine powdered parrafin wax?????
Thats a new one on me! Anyone care to share some light on this for me?

[alany]

Put the block of wax in the freezer for a few hours, then shave it through a carpenter's plane. Mix it with the KNO3 and rub through a sieve before it warms up too much.

[adamw]

Paraffin wax is candle wax, and the forumla works very well. A lot better than KNO3 / Sugar alone.

You can probably buy prilled paraffin wax from a candlemakers.

[Mumbles]

One other possibility would be to dissolve the paraffin in naphtha, mineral spirits, etc and add the KNO3 and sugar mix to it. You could almost make cast smoke material this way.