8 replies to this topic

[NUKE]

Hi.First of all I have some barium left that isn't 100% pure (in order not to catch fire).Does anyone knows what to do or ho to purify it?

I also have ammonium nitrate that is used for agriculture i think that also isn't pure.
Does anyone know how to purify it?

P.S.I want to make the rocket prop with the AN and the Elastomeric binder (HTPB or other urethane plastic).Could anyone tell me where to find this sort of plastic?


Thanks.

[mnementh]

Hi Nuke,
check this link for storage of Barium;

http://www.carondele...AEM/Barium4.htm

Agricultural NH4NO3 usually comes in two grades;

namely high nitrogen content and low nitrogen content. If you try a google search, you'll get more detailed info.

The high nitrogen grade is pretty pure NH4NO3 but the major problem is that it's very hygroscopic, so will almost certainly be hydrated to some extent.

HTH,
Sandy

[Dan]

Hi.First of all I have some barium left that isn't 100% pure (in order not to catch fire).Does anyone knows what to do or ho to purify it?

I also have ammonium nitrate that is used for agriculture i think that also isn't pure.
Does anyone know how to purify it?

P.S.I want to make the rocket prop with the AN and the Elastomeric binder (HTPB or other urethane plastic).Could anyone tell me where to find this sort of plastic?
Thanks.

i think it might be in a construcktion adhesive called liqued nails here in the US but double check i am not positive. you could also try googling it.

[paul]

Dont even try to work around with AN and Uethane Plastics. This is high power rocketry and I think you should start with smaller rockets. BP rockets for example :)

Not to mention, that this special kind of HTPB should be very hard to find :D Not to say impossible. Also it requires good constructions like Nakka uses them. AN/HTPB can not be use in papercasing/nozzle of clay/guidance-stic rockets :P


To the Ba: Erm, you should only try to purificate it if you want to do very very laborious work. Maybe its worth the work, but you could change it into Ba(NO3)2 with HNO3.

Edited by paul, 15 December 2004 - 07:24 PM.

[Pretty green flames]

Anyone have any idea how to separate KCLO3 from KCLO4

[Stuart]

Recrystallisation and then destruction of the remaining KClO3 (if there is any). Let me know if you want a process

[Pretty green flames]

Yes....please PM me the process

Edit: Btw is there a way of just separating the two without eliminating 1 or the other.

Edited by Pretty green flames, 03 February 2005 - 05:04 PM.

[Richard H]

No.

[Stuart]

Decided it would be better to write the process here encase anybody else wanted it. All you will need for this process is water, a big jar and a thermometer. Thinking about it, it is not recrystallisation as I pointed out in my previous post.

Theory - the bits you don?t need to know
Potassium Perchlorate and Potassium Chlorate Solubility per 100ml water

Temperature | 0*C|10*C| 20*C | 30*C | 40*C| 50*C | 60*C | 70*C| 80*C  | 90*C| 100*C
------------|----|----|------|------|-----|------|------|-----|-------|-----|-------
KClO3 Sol(g)|3.3 |  5 | 7.4  | 10.5 | 14  | 19.3 | 24.5 | ?   | 38.5  | ?   | 57
KClO4 Sol(g)|0.75|1.05| 1.8  | 2.6  | 4.4 | 6.5  |   9  |11.8 | 14.8  | 18  | 21.8
------------|----|----|------|------|-----|------|------|-----|-------|-----|-------
Ratio       |4.4 |4.76|4.11  | 4.04 |3.18 | 2.97 | 2.72 | ?   | 2.6   | ?   | 2.61

From the above, water at 10*C gives the best ratio of Potassium Perchlorate and Potassium Chlorate solubility so we shall use that temperature.

Theory - the bits you do need to know
I presume you know the ratio of Potassium Perchlorate to Potassium Chlorate that your mix is. If not, then assume that it is all Potassium Chlorate. Take a set amount of the mix, and divide the mass of the Potassium Chlorate present in the mix by 5. Multiply the answer by 100. This is how many millilitres of water you will need.

e.g.
If the mix is 60g Potassium Perchlorate:40g Potassium Chlorate

40/5=8
8*100=800ml of water

If the mix is assumed to be 100g Potassium Chlorate as the true quantity is not know

100/5=20
20*100=2000ml of water

Really, you want to know the amount of Potassium Chlorate present in the mix. In the first example, you won?t find much more than 8.4g of Potassium Perchlorate per 100g of mix remaining in solution. In the second however, you could loose as much as 21g of Potassium Perchlorate per 100g of mix to the solution. With this in mind, knowing the quantity of each in the mix is useful. If however, you have made the Potassium Perchlorate from Potassium Chlorate via electrolysis perhaps, and you believe you have a good yield, then you may consider ignoring this bit and going straight to destruction of the Chlorate later on in the post.


Down to Business
Using the thermometer, get the correct quantity of water as close to 10*C as you can. At the same time, put the Potassium Perchlorate/Potassium Chlorate mixture somewhere cool e.g. in the fridge in a plastic bowl with a cover such as cling film. This will stop it raising the temp of the water on addition.

When ready, dump all of the mixture into the water. Stir it for about a minute and filter. You may then want to wash the filtered solid with cold water to get rid of as much Chlorate as possible, but I personally wouldn?t bother. Leave to dry.

At this stage, unless you intend to use the solid for mixtures containing Sulphur, Ammonium salts, Phosphorous (but you wouldn?t be using that, would you ), you could leave it at this, as any Chlorate remaining would be in very very small quantities, not to worry about. However, this is unlikely to be the case and you will need to chemically destroy any Chlorate left for safety.

Chlorate Destruction
Thankfully, there is a nice webpage with a number of ways of destroying Chlorates without me needing to type anymore (hurrah!).

http://www.geocities...te/destroy.html

The Ferrous Sulphate (look for Sulphate of Iron in garden shops) or Acid destruction ones look like they are the easiest to do. Beware of Acid destruction, nasty Chlorine Dioxide is produced so do it in a well ventilated area such as an amateur chemists fume cupboard (i.e. outside!).

Any more questions or problems, just ask

Edited by Stuart, 03 February 2005 - 09:06 PM.