135 replies to this topic

[completebeginner]

yugen biki did you change the proportions of your bp because that was what sped it up for me more than 3 times and whenever i make polverone out of my meal it just slows it down

[LadyKate]

yugen biki did you change the proportions of your bp because that was what sped it up for me more than 3 times and whenever i make polverone out of my meal it just slows it down

I'm not Yugen Biki (doh!) but making pulverone generally speeds my BP up .. making compressed grains sometimes slows it down - depending on the charcoal and how I hold my lips. The trade off is that the compressed grains (1.7 grams/cc) are much hardier and won't degrade to basic components - which is why compressing was adopted way back in time.

[completebeginner]

yugen biki was saying that his alder charcoal was slower than his pine and i was saying to change the proportions sorry about the misunderstanding ladykate and whenever i make pulverone it ends up making less smoke and sending out a lot of sparks whil going a little slower but ill try it again tape it and compare

Edited by completebeginner, 15 September 2005 - 11:50 PM.

[LadyKate]

yugen biki was saying that his alder charcoal was slower than his pine and i was saying to change the proportions sorry about the misunderstanding ladykate and whenever i make pulverone it ends up making less smoke and sending out a lot of sparks whil going a little slower but ill try it again tape it and compare

If you decide to do it, be sure to press it through something like a window screen. I've found that if the screen I use is around 15-20 mesh (or thereabouts), the powder is faster than if I coarsely screen it.

[completebeginner]

oh my screen is much too small then thats probably why it was slower my screen is 150 mesh thanks

[Yugen-biki]

My alder is fatser then my pine. I use pine for crysantemum because pine leaves sparks. Finely milled alder leaves very little sparks.
I did not change the proportions. I don't think it is needed.

For a complete insrtuction, the method I'm using can be found in AFN III "Super pulverone".
I mill the C+S for 60h and suspend it together with the KNO3 in a saturated solution. I pour this in to a alcohol bath that is put on ice and salt to make it coolder. Then I stirr really fast. The dough is pressed with 2 tonnes and crushed into granues after drying. The resluts works very good for lifting shells.
Most of the work is done by the mill. Plust that I don't mill the KNO3 which gives a shorter milling time.

EDIT:

And here is a movie of the granulated and powder. 10g were used in both of the tests and the length of the pile was 30cm.

BP test (1383Kb. "Save target as" when the link comes up.)

(If the movie does not work is it because it is coded with DivX. The codec can be found here DivX codec for installation.)

Edited by Yugen-biki, 16 September 2005 - 07:31 PM.

[Pieman]

My BP has come along alot since I started pyro about 3 months ago. Up until now I have been just making about 10g of green meal, ginding any larger bits of charcoal with two spoons, and putting it in a fountain. The otherday, however, I got hold of some isopropanol and followed the instructions of Dan Williams website (I had to use a pestle and morter due to a lack of a ball mill and instead of a hydraulic press i just pressed it into a loo roll center with the lid off of the isopropanol bottle, a perfect fit) When it had dried I broke it into little stones by tapping it until it came apart.
Awhile ago I read about a device, a type of ground salute, in the shape of a triangle (I'm not sure what it's called) and tried to make some using just the green meal powder. Instead of exploding it made a small fountain out of the fuse end. I tried it again yesterday using my pressed and broken black powder and it really explodes with a sharp crack . I cant believe just how much of a difference having stones of black powder makes to using just loose powder!
I can't wait to get my hands on a ball mill or hydraulic press now, just have to start saving!

[karlfoxman]

Well done, this is the 'test' i used to do, my powder bp will make a crack but then again i have a ballmill. This bp you have now should be good enough to lift shells, my advice is to do some tests with 25mm shells and see how high you can lift them. Granulated makes a very large difference to black powder burn times. Well done again

[LadyKate]

oh my screen is much too small then thats probably why it was slower my screen is 150 mesh thanks

Everyone's mileage varies on this but here is the break out of powder grain size:

Size Mesh
Fg 12 - 16
2Fg 16 - 30
3Fg 20 - 50
4Fg 40 - 100


Note that there is overlap but that 4Fg is up to 100 mesh which is quite fine. Depending on your BP, 100 mesh screenings may not work well. Slower BPs tend to get worse as the mesh size increases. For instance, my briquette BP (terrible stuff) will boil and create slag if it is 100 mesh or higher. However, Pine and other hot charcoal BPs do just fine when they are 100 or higher.

[fishy1]

i improved some crap bp i had lying about (basically fineish charcoal(not airfloat), sulphur and unpowdered GD kno3.)

i boiled some water, chucked in the bp, tell it simmer for a bit, then took it off the heat and added lots of alcohol. then, i ran i througha muslin cloth, squeezed it, and ran it through a normal cooking sieve(not used for food!) and it went into nice granules.
i let it dry, and lit a tiny bit unconfined, it was pretty slow, or so i though.

then, i made something like this: http://www.easy-shar...magnus.bmp.html

the paer tube was made from 2 sheets of A4, taped together(not pasted). when lit, there was a flash, and the tube was lifted over 30 feet. very hopeful. this was an open tube, which was not weighted. about 1g of BP was used.

[LadyKate]

the paer tube was made from 2 sheets of A4, taped together(not pasted). when lit, there was a flash, and the tube was lifted over 30 feet. very hopeful. this was an open tube, which was not weighted. about 1g of BP was used.

We may be greying the line between a driver formula and a lift formula. Slower BPs are required for most rockets/drivers and they will work remarkably well. For instance, my Skylighter charcoal gets an F when making lift powder but it makes very good driver formulas and stars - most of my BP rockets use a variation of it.

So, if your powder doesn't make good lift, it may make an excellent rocket fuel - just have to try it. The biggest thing is to make your powder the same way each time so you can depend on its properties. Make small batches until you get the process down right - don't adjust a batch that is already made, use it up for quickmatch or stars or something. My lift is made with more reactive charcoals (or benzolift) and my driver fuel gets Skylighter charcoal (which I'm almost convinced is merely ground up lump charcoal ;-})

Edited by LadyKate, 09 October 2005 - 03:06 PM.

[Mumbles]

All commercially available charcoal is mixed hardwood. It is really no different than the lump charcoal(not briquette mind you), that is available at the store. Only the stuff you get from skylighter is a powder instead of big chunks. You have to look long and hard to get anything specific.

[LadyKate]

All commercially available charcoal is mixed hardwood. It is really no different than the lump charcoal(not briquette mind you), that is available at the store. Only the stuff you get from skylighter is a powder instead of big chunks. You have to look long and hard to get anything specific.

Steve Baron sells all kinds of softwood charcoal - Stateside only I think. I got some black willow and paulownia from him the other day - both are superb. He is just a tad pricey but I think that is because he is making small batches and he's probably not making that much. When I ordered, I got the distinct impression that he started up his retort specifically for my order. PM me for his email address since I don't know if he wants lots of folks bugging him. I'll send him an email in the meantime and ask. If he's ok with it, I'll share openly.

One of my big disappointments early on was thinking that I should be able to easily make lift powder from Skylighter stuff. I tried several different methods until I figured out the charcoal was just not going to cut it. A 20 pound bag of lumpwood costs 1/20 what the Skylighter stuff does and it works just as good - I tested it several ways (my charcoal tests link which I've already posted in other spots has the data) and it performed almost exactly like the Skylighter stuff. And it still sucks as lift powder - but great for other things.

[Mumbles]

I saw one guy in the back of an AFN newsletter, or PGI bulletin or something that was selling Paulownia charcoal, but I would of have to driven to Florida for it because he wasn't shipping.

I usually use the Lumpwood charcoal for most things. It works good enough I feel for all my uses. I wish I could crush it easier though. The lift is lacking at times, but I've never had a serious problem. I just bought some charcoal powder from discount pyro with my recent plastic shell order. I want to compare this against other stuff I have. I have a large supply of pine that I need to convert. I have been trying to find a metal drum, but it hasn't been going well. 55gallons it too big. 15 gallons would be probably best. I have a suitable metal drum of Mg, but I need to get rid of all that first.

[LadyKate]

I saw one guy in the back of an AFN newsletter, or PGI bulletin or something that was selling Paulownia charcoal, but I would of have to driven to Florida for it because he wasn't shipping.

I have a large supply of pine that I need to convert. I have been trying to find a metal drum, but it hasn't been going well. 55gallons it too big. 15 gallons would be probably best. I have a suitable metal drum of Mg, but I need to get rid of all that first.

Steve emailed me back and said it was ok.. He just wants to remind everyone that he only ships in the USA. Email csworks@netzero.net and ask for a price list. He will email you and he can ship ORM-D which means surface transport only - he takes a couple of weeks to get the order together and he only accepts money-orders/checks. He does make a good product - my paulownia airfloat is incredible.

I have two retort sizes: See http://www.wichitabu...s/charcoal.html Mine are variations on Dan Williams' versions which are here: http://www.wecreate4...l/charcoal.html

On my charcoal page (the link above) at the bottom is my slightly improved version of a retort and cooker setup.

Edited by LadyKate, 10 October 2005 - 03:06 AM.