121 replies to this topic

[cat]

you should also check out "Making Cheaper Dragon Eggs With Bismuth Subcarbonate" in skylighters news letter this week.

-Cat

[Pretty green flames]

the formula for bismuth subcarbonate is Bi2CO5....right

[Stuart]

No, its (BiO)2CO3

[Pretty green flames]

thnx

[sasman]

In this months skylighter bulletin there's a bit of info on dragons egg..take a look..

[sasman]

Not having made any Pyrotechnical compositions sofar this year ..I thought i would give Dragons egg's a try after watching the Beeehives Video which was recently post on Rec.pyro.

I loved those Crackling Comets which were in both the mines and one of his shells...I made some last year using my homemade Magnalium.. But didnt have much success.. So now that i have some 50/50 commercial magnalium..I thought i would give it a try..

I used the Formula Dragons eggs from passfire ..Magnalium,Copper Oxide(Black),Sulphur,Potassium Nitrate,Lead dioxide(red lead).. + NC laquer to bind the comp..
I made a 20 gram batch mixed all the components.. then added the NC to make a thick putty like mass rolled it out flat and using a sharp Blade cut it in to various sized cubes let it dry for about 15 minutes... and that was it...

I used a slow burning willow mix which i added about 15% magnalium to act as the hot prime...

End result was flipping fantastic!!! Snap Crackle pop... ..Much better than my last try..
I have read that it is very sensative to Friction and impact..After rereading a few of my Books... I am a bit nervous on how to use them?

Lancaster mentions the Friction and impact tests for dragons eggs that were made using bismuth trioxide.. so i assume red lead would be similiar or maybe even more sensative.. ..

I took a small cube about 2mm square of the Mixture and placed it on some Flat cast iron and hit it with the hammer.. and it made quite a big CracK!.. So this sure is a dodgy comp..

I only made 20 g but is it safe pouring it in to a paper can for storage?..is the "Pouring" action enough to set off the comp?...Also How should i use them ? Is it safe to roll them as cores? or should i use them for making pumped stars?..

Also i am totaly amazed at the fact that it needs quite a hot prime to set them of yet .. they can be made to ignite when hit with a hammer?.. why is this? ..

[LadyKate]

I used a slow burning willow mix which i added about 15% magnalium to act as the hot prime...

End result was flipping fantastic!!! Snap Crackle pop... ..Much better than my last try..
I have read that it is very sensative to Friction and impact..After rereading a few of my Books... I am a bit nervous on how to use them?

I have a terrible time getting mine to light reliably, too. They will sometimes not pop when airborne. I can usually get them to work on the ground.

I feel your pain about the storage issue - after all the work to get them made (mask, gloves, outside, etc, etc) I now have to worry about storage. It almost isn't worth it. In any case, I store mine in a plastic container - the same kind of container I store most of my comps in.

I roll a dozen or so at a time - with gloves and face shield - so that an accident will be minimized - it would still be darned noisy if they popped. They were a bit dodgy to get started but a little patience paid off - sort of. I need to get a hotter prime for the next batch.

You mention that your first batch didn't work very well. What were the circumstances? I'm trying to identify failure modes in the construction of these things - it seems there are some.

[adamw]

I have noticed one of the modes of failure is nitrate contamination; leaching from the 'mother' star for example. This has also been documented by others .

[al93535]

If the nitrate really stops the dragon eggs from working then why does passfire include KNO3 in the formula?

Lead Tetraoxide 10

Copper(II) Oxide, black 7

Magnalium, granular, -200 mesh 4

Potassium Nitrate 1.5

Sulfur 1
There are two formulas with almost identical ingredients, except one has saran resin.

I tried :
red lead 81.8
Mg/al 9.1
CuO 9.1
It only works if I hold a blow torch to the egg for like 5 seconds or more. It goes off very loud too. A super hot prime leaves the egg glowing, but no pop.

I was thinking about trying :
red lead 70
Mg/al 17.5
CuO 12.5
I hope these work better. I would try the above comp from passfire, but I have also read somewhere the nitrate destroys the egg. Any suggestions? Thanks guys!!

[Pretty green flames]

You should try a prime with silicon or red lead. Both leave an extremely hot slag which will ignite the most stuborn of mixtures.

Ah yes, found the microstar priming formula.

KNO3-57.2
S-11.4
C-11.4
Si (powdered)-11.4
Alumionium (dark)-5.7
Dextrine-2.9

Try this.

Edited by Pretty green flames, 08 November 2005 - 07:21 PM.

[broadsword]

I was looking at making some Dragons eggs but i didnt really want to use Lead Tetraoxide, is there any other RELIABLE crackling compositions that do not use such dangerous chemicals?

[Valec]

I had good results with bismut oxide compositions like this one:

Bi2O3 37.5
CuO 37.5
Magnalium, granular, -275 mesh 25

You may add 5% of Al, which will result in sparking crackling stars...

[broadsword]

I dont really have the means to make any magnelium. Thats the problem!
I have magnesium and aluminium powders just i can see a huge risk heating up Mg over a fire or using a heat source and it will need huge amounts of heat to melt the aluminium.

How have others managed this?

[Yugen-biki]

I think the dragon eggs will work with Al + Mg instead of MgAl. I think I read about is some where... Try it.

I have tried the dragon eggs with Bi(III)O. I made a paste with NC-laquer which I granulated. The dragon granules were put in a "matrix composition". It consisted basicly of "BP" and fine Al. The matrix and the eggs were made in to a dough useing water and dextrin as a binder.
When I made them the nitrate had a long time to leech into the eggs, but they worked just fine.


The eggs/granules does not light if put in a similar matrix composition without first makeing stars of them. That is makeing a dough with water and dextrin...
They will light with a blow torch.

There are three dragon eggs compositions.
1. Red lead oxide (poisones)
2. Bi(III)O (expensive)
3. Sodium thiosulfate (many hard to get chemicals. (Has anyone tested this?)) http://www.ukrocketr...&hl=thiosulfate

Here is a movie with some Bi(III)O eggs: Eggs

Edited by Yugen-biki, 09 November 2005 - 05:39 PM.

[dfk]

It?s been a while since Ive posted on this site but eggs are my favorite and also the comp Ive worked on most recently so here?s my 2 cents. Bismuth is the ?non toxic? replacement for lead in egg comps.

This is the formula I use.

Bismuth trioxide 75
Magnalium 15
Black Copper Oxide 10
Aluminum +5
Nitrocellulose Laquer 10%


I have also tried a lead based formula but Ive found the bismuth formula to be better in many ways. The comp was passed through 2 60 mesh screens, dampened with NC until a thick past was formed then granulated through 20Mesh? Window screen. I used this stuff in everything this passed 4th of July. Lets see if I can remember. There was crackling Ti tails for my 4? shells, 15 shot 1.5? Mg red w/Ti tail salute to crackle cake (I was proud of that one), and my favorite was my 4? crackling D1 glitter shell. I have a nice video of that one that id post, I just need to get a USB cable for my camera.

This should be a picture of my granulated comp. This is my first upload with a host site so see how it goes.