121 replies to this topic

[Mumbles]

There are three options.

a) You have one messed up screen
Your comp was way over wetted
c) Those are not dragon eggs.

My guess would be with C. If I had to make a guess as to what it really is, I would say burst on some carrier. Perhaps rice hulls or grass seed. The grains are very elongated, which leads me to believe that it didn't come from a normal screen. Either the comp was very wet and it came out more like spaghetti than grains, or those arn't eggs. It would be extremely hard to roll around an elongagted shape like that.

[Yugen-biki]

You don't need to roll the eggs in prime. Just dump the "eggs" in the primer, wet it and pump/cut stars out of the dough. Works great.

They are elongated though... :-/

[dfk]

There are three options.

a) You have one messed up screen
Your comp was way over wetted
c) Those are not dragon eggs.

My guess would be with C. If I had to make a guess as to what it really is, I would say burst on some carrier. Perhaps rice hulls or grass seed. The grains are very elongated, which leads me to believe that it didn't come from a normal screen. Either the comp was very wet and it came out more like spaghetti than grains, or those arn't eggs. It would be extremely hard to roll around an elongagted shape like that.

Good thing no one asked you mumbles.

Actually those are cracker granules. This pic was taken before the mess was re-screened. With cracker granule comp you screen to the desired size, then dampen any undesired powder or chunks with straight acetone and re-screen. Even though I wasn?t asking for anyone?s input you are right, my comp was kind of wet.

What yugen said is right, all eggs don?t have to be cores and if you noticed in my post, that?s not what I used these for. The granules were mixed matrix style in a number of other compositions to achieve a crackle effect

[raiderzone]

I've been experimenting with Dragon Eggs and wanted to share some of my findings. The formula I've
been using is:

Bismuth Subcarbonate 75
Magnalium 200 mesh 15
Copper Oxide II 10

I knead the mix in a ziploc bag and add a binder of nitrocellulose/acetone to a putty like consistancy. I've started out cutting these stars, but think they come out much better pumped. I'm going to have to purchase or make a microstar plate for these. The acetone evaporates very fast and makes this hard to work with as you have work fast and add more acetone as needed.

I started testing a batch of these without any prime. Its neat watching them go through their smoldering phase before they get hot enough to pop. These guys are really loud. A 3mm pumped star is easily as loud as a commercial firecracker (maybe louder?).

I've tried Universal Meal prime with these and it doesnt seem to work well. I get inconsistant results in that some eggs will smolder without a pop, and some will pop violently. I'm going to try a perchlorate based prime recommended in the Best of AFN V crackling microstars article. Hopefully this will resolve the priming issues.

Another thing I noticed was that larger pieces would blow up much more violently and not section off into smaller eggs as I was expecting. Out of my own curiousity I pumped out a 3/8" egg to see if it would section off into smaller pops. Nope, this monster egg blew up with one loud KABOOM.

More to come on this as I dial in on the prime. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good prime for Dragon Eggs? I'm also going to try adding a small percentage of Ti to get a burst of silver sparks to accompany the pops. Very fun stuff here, but I've only managed to get them going on the ground, not in the air yet.

Picture of 3mm egg vs 3/8"
http://raiderzon.pyr...gon_egg_fun.jpg

[Frozentech]

I've been experimenting with Dragon Eggs and wanted to share some of my findings. The formula I've
been using is:

Bismuth Subcarbonate 75
Magnalium 200 mesh 15
Copper Oxide II 10

I knead the mix in a ziploc bag and add a binder of nitrocellulose/acetone to a putty like consistancy. I've started out cutting these stars, but think they come out much better pumped. I'm going to have to purchase or make a microstar plate for these. The acetone evaporates very fast and makes this hard to work with as you have work fast and add more acetone as needed.

I started testing a batch of these without any prime. Its neat watching them go through their smoldering phase before they get hot enough to pop. These guys are really loud. A 3mm pumped star is easily as loud as a commercial firecracker (maybe louder?).

I've tried Universal Meal prime with these and it doesnt seem to work well. I get inconsistant results in that some eggs will smolder without a pop, and some will pop violently. I'm going to try a perchlorate based prime recommended in the Best of AFN V crackling microstars article. Hopefully this will resolve the priming issues.

Another thing I noticed was that larger pieces would blow up much more violently and not section off into smaller eggs as I was expecting. Out of my own curiousity I pumped out a 3/8" egg to see if it would section off into smaller pops. Nope, this monster egg blew up with one loud KABOOM.

More to come on this as I dial in on the prime. Does anyone have any suggestions for a good prime for Dragon Eggs? I'm also going to try adding a small percentage of Ti to get a burst of silver sparks to accompany the pops. Very fun stuff here, but I've only managed to get them going on the ground, not in the air yet.

Picture of 3mm egg vs 3/8"
http://raiderzon.pyr...gon_egg_fun.jpg

Best of AFN III lists a Dragon Egg prime of :
Potassium Nitrate 57.2%
Sulfur 11.4
Charcoal (air float) 11.4
Silicon 11.4
Aluminum, dark pyro 5.7
Dextrin 2.9

The trick is to wax coat the eggs prior to priming. Otherwise KNO3 will ruin the crackle effect. I spoke with David Armstrong, who wrote the Passfire article on dragon eggs, who told me he just melts ordinary paraffin wax, puts the stars in, and strains them out immediately onto paper. Separate as they cool on a piece of paper.

To prime, put the dried, coated stars in a bowl, spray with 50/50 alcohol/water and dredge them with the prime powder until coated.

His other trick is the cutter he made from a pair of 'noodle cutters' as he called them. I bought some as "rolling mincer' from Oxo inc. He mounted 2 sets of blades so they make 2 mm strips of comp, then cuts crosswise to that to make 2 mm square eggs, which he claims allows him to make 1000 stars in 20 minutes work

Another project I plan to get to Real Soon Now ™ I just got my Bismuth Trioxide in, which is what I want to try for eggs first. My Lead Tetraoxide was returned to Firefox by the shipper Thats another story.


If you have a Passfire subscription look in the archives there. Good luck !

[raiderzone]

Best of AFN III lists a Dragon Egg prime of :
Potassium Nitrate 57.2%
Sulfur 11.4
Charcoal (air float) 11.4
Silicon 11.4
Aluminum, dark pyro 5.7
Dextrin 2.9

The trick is to wax coat the eggs prior to priming. Otherwise KNO3 will ruin the crackle effect. I spoke with David Armstrong, who wrote the Passfire article on dragon eggs, who told me he just melts ordinary paraffin wax, puts the stars in, and strains them out immediately onto paper. Separate as they cool on a piece of paper.

To prime, put the dried, coated stars in a bowl, spray with 50/50 alcohol/water and dredge them with the prime powder until coated.

His other trick is the cutter he made from a pair of 'noodle cutters' as he called them. I bought some as "rolling mincer' from Oxo inc. He mounted 2 sets of blades so they make 2 mm strips of comp, then cuts crosswise to that to make 2 mm square eggs, which he claims allows him to make 1000 stars in 20 minutes work

Frozentech -

Thanks for the advice. I've actually been looking for the noodle cutters in the Passfire article and had no luck until finding them. Going to order the "rolling mincer" ASAP .

[Frozentech]

Frozentech -

Thanks for the advice. I've actually been looking for the noodle cutters in the Passfire article and had no luck until finding them. Going to order the "rolling mincer" ASAP .

FYI, I made a small batch of dragons eggs using the Bismuth Trioxide formula, and since I had no silicon, I first tried a plain meal prime, which didn't work, they just *poof* as the BP burns off. I then tried a hot prime of Potassium Perchlorate 70%, Magnalium 20%, Red Gum 10% from Passfire. That ignited the eggs, but was a touch hard to ignite itself, so I primed over that with the BP meal, and now the eggs easily take fire and *bang* with a nice flashing pop

[raiderzone]

FYI, I made a small batch of dragons eggs using the Bismuth Trioxide formula, and since I had no silicon, I first tried a plain meal prime, which didn't work, they just *poof* as the BP burns off. I then tried a hot prime of Potassium Perchlorate 70%, Magnalium 20%, Red Gum 10% from Passfire. That ignited the eggs, but was a touch hard to ignite itself, so I primed over that with the BP meal, and now the eggs easily take fire and *bang* with a nice flashing pop

Thanks for the info. I prefer to take the KISS method when it comes to pyro (plus I'm lazy). I have reviewed a few
texts and have verified that the Potassium Nitrate does hinder the crackling effect of the dragon eggs. I prefer
to not take the extra step of waxing the microstars, so I will with a perchlorate based prime. I will probably
try a different perchlorate based prime in AFN V, only because you mentioned that the dragon egg prime from Passfire is hard to ignite. I prefer to not prime stars twice because I'm lazy, but appreciate you providing the info so I have something to fall back on. Will keep you posted on my results.

BTW - Here's a video of the 3/8" Dragon Egg I pressed out of curiousity. As mentioned in an earlier post, it was quite loud and did not section off into smaller eggs as others have posted.

http://raiderzon.pyr..._dragon_egg.mpg

[Frozentech]

Thanks for the info. I prefer to take the KISS method when it comes to pyro (plus I'm lazy). I have reviewed a few
texts and have verified that the Potassium Nitrate does hinder the crackling effect of the dragon eggs. I prefer
to not take the extra step of waxing the microstars, so I will with a perchlorate based prime. I will probably
try a different perchlorate based prime in AFN V, only because you mentioned that the dragon egg prime from Passfire is hard to ignite. I prefer to not prime stars twice because I'm lazy, but appreciate you providing the info so I have something to fall back on. Will keep you posted on my results.

BTW - Here's a video of the 3/8" Dragon Egg I pressed out of curiousity. As mentioned in an earlier post, it was quite loud and did not section off into smaller eggs as others have posted.

http://raiderzon.pyr..._dragon_egg.mpg

Looks like a salute It really wasn't any work to double prime those, I just spritzed the dried eggs with 25% alcohol then dredged them with the perc prime, in a strainer, let them dry for 15 minutes till the red gum set, spritzed them again and sprinkled meal dust BP on them, and dried them on a screen. I all tried a small pile of them on the ground, and they were cracking away like crazy. Can't wait to loft about 20 grams of them up with a small rocket .

What is that other prime you mentioned from BAFN V ? I haven't bought V yet. Good book ?

[fishy1]

Has anyone made bismuth trioxide by oxidising bismuth metal? I can get bismuth cheaply, if I melt it and blow air through it, it should oxidise right? Will it burn a lot(i.e hot enough to melt a steel crucible?)

[alany]

Probably easier to precipitate the Carbonate or Hydroxide from an ionic solution, probably the Nitrate which is easy to make if you have strong Nitric acid. Note I haven't actually tried this! The Nitrate itself is usable in crackle as-is, as is the Carbonate, but you can roast them to produce the Oxide which has a fairly high melting point.

Trying to burn Bismuth would be frustrating I suspect.

Bismuth chemistry is unusual, its Chloride and Sulfate are decomposed by water, and the Oxychloride is insoluble in water (what forms when the Chloride reacts with water). The Oxychloride might make an interesting catalyst for various things, it is cheap and easily available in a fine flake-like form where it is used like Mica as a pigment for sheen, especially in make-up.

Something you've enspired me to try is producing the Chloride and Oxychloride from anodic oxidation in HCl. Bismuth is ment to react with HCl only with oxygen's assistance (not in aqueous solution!), I suspect using Bismuth as an anode in a cell with some HCl solution as the electrolyte would rapidly convert it to Oxychloride which would settle to the bottom of the cell.

I also wonder if the Oxychloride might be a usable crackle oxidiser?

[Jerronimo]

I just made a small batch of dragon's eggs (20 gram)
Well, what can I say...WOOOOW these things are amazing!!!!!.
I used this formula(listed in Hardt):

75 bismuth trioxide
15 magnalium(60 mesh)
10 copper oxide(black)

Bound with 10% NC laquer

I made granules of various sizes, ranging from 0,7mm to 3mm.
Just to see how the would function I put 4 of these tiny granules in a small pile of bp, about 1 second after the bp burned up they exploded, and how!!! even the smallest granule of 0,7mm made a unbelievable bang!!!
RESPECT for these little buggers.

[Anders Greenman]

Anyone tried Acetone Peroxide for dragon eggs? I know a source of Lead Tetraoxide, but no bismuth.
My brain tells me to keep away from soluble lead compounds, so I thought the peroxide might me an alternative. The only problem is to get it detonate. When contact with flame inn small amounts, it only pops with a relatively large fireball, but if confined, compressed or in large amounts, it detonates with a very loud crack. If I compress it as best as I can and add a thin but strong layer of something around it, it should work very well.
Anyone tried this?

Edited by Anders Greenman, 20 August 2006 - 09:00 PM.

[al93535]

I would rather use read lead as a skin coloring then mess with acetone peroxide.

[Pretty green flames]

I suggest you edit your post so there are no signs of stupid things like AP. And to answer your qeustion, NO it would not work, the force from the lift would be enough to prematurely set the thing off. Even handling a shell like this would be extremely dangerous, it only needs one to go off and start a chain reaction.

Use a respirator, gloves, long sleeved shirt when handling toxic stuff and you'll be fine.

PS: Oh and read the rules (#1)

Edited by Pretty green flames, 21 August 2006 - 04:57 AM.