121 replies to this topic

[karlfoxman]

Anders Greenman:- Any talk of HE is a direct breech of the forum rules, any more will see you getting a warning or worse. Please think before posting!

[adamw]

Anyone tried Acetone Peroxide for dragon eggs? I know a source of Lead Tetraoxide, but no bismuth.
My brain tells me to keep away from soluble lead compounds, so I thought the peroxide might me an alternative. The only problem is to get it detonate. When contact with flame inn small amounts, it only pops with a relatively large fireball, but if confined, compressed or in large amounts, it detonates with a very loud crack. If I compress it as best as I can and add a thin but strong layer of something around it, it should work very well.
Anyone tried this?

I can't believe you suggested such a stupid thing. Dragons eggs can be sensitive enough without bringing ultra-sensitive primary high explosives into the equation. I don't even like the idea that some U.S. pyro's put pistol / shotgun primer caps into stars to use as crackling.

Seriously... think before you click the 'send' button.

[Anders Greenman]

Sorry guys, but it was intended for use in fireworks and not explosives. It should be mentioned that ammonium nitrate lower it's sensitivity a lot and still makes it flame sensitive. And AP is less sensitive than everybody says (personal experience), but should be handled with extreme care. Anyway, i'l give it a go and see if it makes the effect. And Bleser reccomend using Lead Styphnite (pistol primers) wich is a HE for making dragon eggs. Where i live, pistol primers is hard to get, so one would have to make it at home. Though styphnite is very tricky to make and demands great knowledge and expensive equipment.
Therfore, i thought AP (with ammonium nitrate) could be an alternative Again, sorry. Just delete my posts if you find it so.

[Pretty green flames]

You must understand that organic peroxides have no place in pyrotechnics so do not try to make dragons eggs out of APAN, it'll blow in the mortar from the lift shock. Don't do it, it is stupid.

And AP is less sensitive than everybody says (personal experience), but should be handled with extreme care

The famous last words before he losses a part of his body.

[Anders Greenman]

Well, i'm still convinced that some of these composition (not AP) might be safer than the standard lead and bismuth, but i'm still a faitful follower of the unwritten rule "if the industry don't use it, then, there are other and usually better alternatives". I'l stick to the standard MgAl, Bismuth tetraoxide and copper oxide composition.
I'm sure it will take some time until i get my first batch of bismuth trioxide here in Norway, but safety first.
Thanks

[quote]The famous last words before he losses a part of his body[quote]
By saying that AP is less sensitive than at least i thought before testing, doesn't means that i'm not as careful as usual. But, let's stop that discussion and continue on the great dragon eggs topic

Edited by Anders Greenman, 22 August 2006 - 01:24 PM.

[adamw]

The rule is "if the industry doesn't use it... there is a reason!"

If it wasn't for it's degradability and incompatibility, triacetoneperoxide would be the industry's wonder primary explosive - powerful and very cheap to make. There are other materials used every day that are just as, or even more sensitive but they are a lot more stable, and that is the most important factor.

Anyway...

Please stop all talk of using such things in fireworks and PYROTECHNICS...

[Anders Greenman]

Didn't remembered the exact phrase.
I will not bother looking for other more safe alternatives as a substitute for bismuth trioxide, at least for now. Anyway, I have enough eggs to keep me busy at least to New Years Eve. Then, it's ordering time.

[EnigmaticBiker]

I'm wondering if there is a safe alternative to NC laquer for Bi2O3, MgAl and CuO formulation microstars.

I have shellac, pvc, polystyrene and range of solvents but haven't seen a formulation that mentions anything but NC laquer and like to check before substituting.

[rocket]

I think the reason NC lacquer is use is because it burns buy it self, the other binders you mentioned don’t burn by them self. If I’m wrong please correct me.

[BrightStar]

Hmmm... Halloween night, pesky kids trick or treating. What we need is something to scare them away... What could be better than dragons eggs?

I had not tried them before, so opened up my chem store and mixed the standard 75% bismuth trioxide, 15% fine magnal, 10% black copper oxide, +5% Al, bound with NC lacquer. This was grated with a kitchen seive into a slow BP meal dust prime to form cracker granules. They ended up very fine - I would guess 0.5 to 1.0 mm.

The granules worked well on the ground, popping and cracking all over the place. A bag mine with 5g of granules in a 1" mortar, with 2g of corned BP lift gave a good thump (and indeed scared the kids off ), but the 'time rain' effect I had been hoping for just didn't happen. All I managed was a few sparks...

To make this work in the air, I'll try bigger granules (perhaps with more solvent / lacquer) and maybe a hotter prime. Any hints? Will I need to use a matrix comp?

Edited by BrightStar, 01 November 2006 - 05:58 AM.

[EnigmaticBiker]

I think the reason NC lacquer is use is because it burns buy it self, the other binders you mentioned don’t burn by them self. If I’m wrong please correct me.

Thanks for reply, I just got some NC laquer as it seems there isn't a substitute (none found anyway), so you're probably correct.

I'm putting them in fountains first (when I get them to work) as small granules and maybe a cone if that works ok. I'd like a crackling rocket but 95% sure it would CATO .

Edited by EnigmaticBiker, 01 November 2006 - 09:45 PM.

[they say im crazy]

ive been reading this topic and i too would like to make dragon eggs i have read u can get bi2o3 from skylighter although i prefer to buy surplus from the u.k, and i have acetone and nc all i need is black copper oxide and magnalium 50/50 can anyone help me out (i will buy surplus) cheers

Edited by they say im crazy, 04 November 2006 - 06:09 PM.

[pyromaniac303]

I'm putting them in fountains first (when I get them to work) as small granules and maybe a cone if that works ok.

Hope your pressing and not ramming those fountains! I recently tested some and 80% exploded when hit with a hammer on a concrete floor. You can press with a vice for small fountains, or press the last 1" or so by hand. Also use a large nozzle so they can exit the tube.

[BrightStar]

A very quick success report Made up 5g of dragons eggs granules as per the forumla mentioned above, this time using more lacquer. They came out 1mm in size. Once dried, I mixed them with the same mass of BP + 10% dextrin, dampened with 25% IPA and cut into 5mm cubes and dried.

Fired from the 1" mortar with 2g of BP lift, and the sky was filled with sparking cracking granules. No exotic primes needed, this just worked

Edited by BrightStar, 05 November 2006 - 09:05 PM.

[EnigmaticBiker]

A very quick success report

I used more laquer too (12% of whatever strength the laquer was, work testing), a few percent in fountains worked really well. As did a BP fountain and small gerbs wth up to 20%
Pressed carefully with a wooden rod, I don't ram anything.

Rolled some stars using Bp and cracking core, tried in small roman candles. The didn't work so well but that's more to do with my lack of experience with star rolling. The cores were too small.