18 replies to this topic

[miniskinny]

I was reading on skylighter today, and I was wondering what Teflon does with metal powders? I would prefer to learn about it on here rather than learn first hand and realize it's air sensitive or something. Any practical uses? This is in the correct place, chemistry of Teflon?

[seymour]

Skylighter says that it is sometimes used as an oxediser, but this still baffles me as it is only [(-CF2CF2-)n) ] No oxygen there! I tried searching on google and found out little but that they use it to coat frying pans and when heated it will kill your budgie. Sory I cant help.

[aapua]

Skylighter says that it is sometimes used as an oxediser, but this still baffles me as it is only    [(-CF2CF2-)n) ] No oxygen there! I tried searching on google and found out little but that they use it to coat frying pans and when heated it will kill your budgie. Sory I cant help.

"Oxidizer" does not mean that the chemical has to have any oxygen at all. For example: Al + S = Al2S3 (S is the oxidizer); 3Zn + C2Cl6 = 3ZnCl2 + 2C Chlorine is the oxidizer)

In your case, this reaction could be basically like the last one since chlorine and fluorine are in the same group. Like: 4Al + 3C2F4 = 4AlF3 + 6C

But remember, teflon is extremly stable, so initiating this reaction might be awfully difficult if not impossible at all

[seymour]

I thought that the sulphur "acted like" or "as" an oxidiser, not be one. Surely if you are going to call sulphur something else It would be "sulphidiser" or something like that. I thought the reason that In sulphur+metal reactions sulphur was called an oxediser was in an effort to not confuse newbies who had only just got around the fact that things need oxygen to burn.

[aapua]

I thought that the sulphur "acted like" or "as" an oxidiser, not be one. Surely if you are going to call sulphur something else It would be "sulphidiser" or something like that. I thought the reason that In sulphur+metal reactions sulphur was called an oxediser was in an effort to not confuse newbies who had only just got around the fact that things need oxygen to burn.

:-)

In chemical meaning, "oxidizer" means "chemical that recieves electrons". Thus, no matter the molecul is, how electrons move is only that matters.

[Richard H]

remember...

OILRIG:

Oxidation Is Loss, Reduction Is Gain (in terms of electrons).

[aapua]

remember...

OILRIG:

Oxidation Is Loss, Reduction Is Gain (in terms of electrons).

2Zn + O2 = 2ZnO
First, in free form both chemicals have oxidation rate zero (OR = 0)

After reaction, Zn has OR= +2, thus it has GIVEN AWAY 2 electrons.
Oxygen has OR = -2, thus it HAS RECIEVED 2 electrons.

[alany]

Correct, the Zinc is oxidised and the Oxygen is reduced.

Oxidisers are reduced by reducing agents who become oxidised in the process.

[seymour]

well thats just screwed up! The way the English language works!

[Andrew]

On the point of the Teflon, it is not really that good as an oxidiser. You can mix it with metal powders and it will react, providing the mixture is good and fine, the metal is a reactive one and the temperature is high enough to start the reaction. You may find that the enthalpy change is not large enough to sustain the reaction in some cases, you could need something more reactive than magnesium. Also, the reaction is probably the most expensive way of producing carbon, not anything you?d want to write home about. Teflon does have a place in cation exchange reactions. If you have Teflon powder and potassium oxide, I imagine the reaction goes quite well. It produces a lot of heat and gas.

[Creepin_pyro]

As far as I'm aware, the practical uses of teflon are limited to military applications - there are various IR flare compositions out there. I seem to remember it gives off evil nerve gasses when burnt.

[lord_dranack]

I have a large jar of teflon powder I had intended to experiment with, to see if the fluorine made any difference to the colour (it probably won't, but I've got no other use for it...)
I think I had heard that it has a habit of spontanoeusly bursting into flames or exploding when mixed with finely divided magnesium powder? Does anyone know anything about this?
In new scientist a while back there was an article on fireworks that mentioned something to do with a magnesium and teflon mixture for decoy flares that had to be mixed remotely. I can't remember my password for their website, but I'll check when I get home!

[Andrew]

flourine is the element with the highest electronegitivity. This makes it's bonds to the carbon very very difficult to overcome. I'd be very surprised if contact alone will cause mg and teflon to burst into flames. If this was the case, teflon would be completely useless. The flourine would react with any decent reducing agent. Everyone knows that teflon is not completely useless and it does not go b*ng when you pour petrol on it. In Teflon the carbon has a very strong hold on it's flourine, and is very reluctant to give it up. If it is used in IR flares, it will be only to give out a controlled amount of heat, or perhaps when the carbon bonds break they emmit photons in the IR region. IR flares aren't what they might seem, they are designed to be covert chemical substitutes to rf beacons, not soemthing that burns bright so that all can see. The flare would not glow red hot. I think that the chemestry in IF flares is a little more complicated than conventional "burning".

[Creepin_pyro]

Taken from rec.pyro - I thought this might be of interest:

accident report

[paul]

I did tests with teflonshavings and 50? magnesium some time ago. This stuff burns ok, but the fumes are very irritant...

There are "thermites" around which use teflon and aluminium. I got this to work once and then did not test further. But this stuff is so increddible hard to light that this has no use in pyrotechnics anyway, I think.

greets,

paul