17 replies to this topic

[DrDerekDoctors]

The only reason I ask is that I'm finally making preparations to try some small pyrotechnic projects but I live in a street so I'm understandably retiscent to do anything like ball-milling of significant quantities of green meal (though I'd be happy to separately mill the constituents) because even if I stick the ball mill at the very bottom of the garden it's still only about 15-20 meters from the house and only a few meters from the neighbour's gardens. Even if I sandbagged it up the wazoo I suspect that if a jar full of BP and brass media went off there would be more than just raised eyebrows to answer to.

So do any of you other people live in fairly suburban areas and what precautions do you take in respect of this fact? Or am I best just not bothering?

[ProfHawking]

personally i would like to think that if you take all the proper safety precautions, ball milling black powder shouldnt go off. However you are right to think of the consequences.
I think if you sandbag around the mill and keep it as far as possible in all directions from people you should be ok, as the chances of it going off are slim to nill if you are carefull.
I mill at the end of my garden, but it is a big garden and surrounded by fields.

[DrDerekDoctors]

personally i would like to think that if you take all the proper safety precautions, ball milling black powder shouldnt go off. However you are right to think of the consequences.
I think if you sandbag around the mill and keep it as far as possible in all directions from people you should be ok, as the chances of it going off are slim to nill if you are carefull.
I mill at the end of my garden, but it is a big garden and surrounded by fields.

Thanks. I think I'm more concerned with legal ramifications than damage related ones as if my milling jar has a nice loose lid and I have it in a pit I should think that damage will be mostly done to the mill and there should be minimal danger of shrapnel. Maybe I'll stick with the CIA method for the time being or mill in very small quantities. I can't any reason for me wanting to make large quantities of BP at once, really - obviously I reserve the right to withdraw that statement when I manage to burn through a few hundred grams in a single afternoon of gleeful experimentation.

[Andrew]

I used to live in a fairly populated area, and found that my ball mill was not a problem as far a noise was concerned, it was quiter than a tumble dryer when it was in the shed. I do hear you about the posible dangers. I have never heard of a ball mill blowing up, but it is a posibility. If you are really that scared, sand bags are a great way the deathen the b*ng and contain shrapnel, be sure to leave an air gap though. Loud bangs usually do not travel very far during the day when the background noise is high. B*ngs usually go un-noticed or ignored if they are not "too" loud. Although honesty is a the best policy, it is not really that hard to blag your way round a contained accident. I personally would avoid metal media for milling bp, this a hot and heavilly debated topic, have a search for milling media and you will find that there are mixed views.

[DrDerekDoctors]

I used to live in a fairly populated area, and found that my ball mill was not a problem as far a noise was concerned, it was quiter than a tumble dryer when it was in the shed. I do hear you about the posible dangers. I have never heard of a ball mill blowing up, but it is a posibility. If you are really that scared, sand bags are a great way the deathen the b*ng and contain shrapnel, be sure to leave an air gap though. Loud bangs usually do not travel very far during the day when the background noise is high. B*ngs usually go un-noticed or ignored if they are not "too" loud. Although honesty is a the best policy, it is not really that hard to blag your way round a contained accident. I personally would avoid metal media for milling bp, this a hot and heavilly debated topic, have a search for milling media and you will find that there are mixed views.

Thanks, I was thinking of going with brass myself because of ease of availability (although preferably lead), I've not really thought about ceramic at all just because I've no idea where I'd get it. I'm not too concerned about the noise of the mill running so much because we're near an industrial estate and so droning noises aren't a problem. Finding a 40 meter extension cable to get to the bottom of the garden, that's more of a problem.

[italteen3]

I am in a suburban area and can hopefully help you out. I am on a little more than an acre of land. My shed is actually very far from any house. Closest house is my own at about 100 feet or 30 meters. Next closest house is about 50 meters then every other house is much further.

With my first mill I was not worryed about an explosion because the quantities of BP were so minimal and crap quality an accident wouldnt have harmed anything outside of the shed. Working with a larger mill as I will be poses a much greater risk though. If you are concerned about an accident, which everyone should be, your best bet is to dig a small pit so if anything happens, it can only go up. In most cases the lid area of a jar is weakest so it would most likely go off and out through that area depending on amount of BP.

If you could try to get a piece of land from someone you know in the country area. My neighbor is letting me get licensed on 150+ acres. Its a three hour drive, but I could run my mill out in the open without having to worry about anyone getting hurt if something did go wrong.

Try hobbyfireworks.com for 3/4" and 1" hardened lead media.

[Phoenix]

I am very pleased that you are considering your neighbours' safety. From what I've read of deliberate explosion of medium sized mill jars, the brass or lead media tends only to travel a few metres, wheras the fragments of the jar (PVC or steel) travel many tens of metres, and could cause significant harm to anybody in their way.

The Maltese commonly use (or have used) un-milled "rough powder" to lift and burst their shells (the individual ingredients are milled). I have made a small amount of BP as described in the 4th post in this thread on rec.pyrotechnics, and it performed fine as lift for some small comets (I think. I remember it worked, anyway). Provided the ingredients are finely milled before hand, it is perfectly possible to make usable BP without milling them together.

BTW, yes, this is meant to make a sort of riced meal for drivers, but I used this stuff as lift with no problems.

Edited by Phoenix, 17 March 2005 - 10:17 PM.

[popyro]

Also a suburbanite(sound vaguely explosive?)I keep the stuff moist(not wet)while milling. I worry more about rattling noises coming from my shed in the wee-hours than about unscheduled ballistic deflagrations.
A good jar is essential to prevent the powder drying out, and once started the mill shouldn't be stopped and restarted because if the moist powder is left sitting it will cake, possibly imbedding some media and ruining the batch.
Hardened lead balls are non-sparking anyway(allegedly), but if in doubt; play safe, no matter what anyone else says.

[alany]

Have you ever actually milled damp BP?

[Richard H]

I wondered this too! Also, I do hope you do not leave your mill running unattended.

[popyro]

Have you ever actually milled damp BP?

Alan, I'm missing something here, surely. Are you a tyro-pyro?

[alany]

Are you a tyro-pyro?

That was kinda the implication, yes.

[adamw]

Adam's thought for the day...

Please consider the effects of a potential accident on yourself, property and others. You should know your surroundings so think safety at all times. Looks like people here know the score regarding small quantities, proper shielding and protection. Also, just think - would you feel happy if your neighbour was doing the same thing?

[paul]

Also, just think - would you feel happy if your neighbour was doing the same thing?

Yep, thats the point! If my neighbour would shoot 3" aerial salutes at night or something, I don?t know how I would react

And so I restrict my tests @ home to shooting single stars for testpurposes etc... No big bangs etc...
If I want to shoot bigger effects I simply have to drive a few kilometres and can do it on a empty field with no houses etc around it...

[popyro]

That was kinda the implication, yes. 

Confusion reigns. . . .