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Buying chemicals.


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#331 Andrew

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Posted 09 April 2006 - 02:04 PM

Well said EB. Considering how cheap jars, drums etc. are in quantity, there's no excuse for not using them. For anything hazardous a placcy bag simply isn't good enough .... imagine bags of KClO3 and S in the same consignment bursting! :o


Firstly, it's against the law to ship anything in class 5 with anything in class 4/3 in the same box. Any legal company/supplier would adhere to the legislation and not do silly things like that. The legislation regarding the shipping of hazardous goods is vast, any company that handles, sells or carries any hazardous goods are by law obliged to employ the services of a DGSA. Expensive but they act as a ?know all?, and aid the legal and safe operation of a company

There are exemptions for shipping small quantities of hazardous goods but the rules are very complicated, i.e. different chemicals have different maximum weights per pack and the mixed packets rules are like a game of chess.

Also labelling of hazardous goods is governed by at least six major pieces of legislation. It makes me laugh when irresponsible sellers on eBay say ?Will be shipped with MSDS?. This is illegal under the CHIP legislation, all hazardous goods sold to the public are by law required to be labelled properly (not labelled incorrectly and sent with a ripped off MSDS), MSDS?s are only intended for professional end users. KNO3.com is one of the worst offenders of this. They do not label any of their products correctly.

The shipping of hazardous goods is covered by the ADR (a European piece of legislation) and the Carriage of Dangerous Goods by Road Regulations 1996 here in the UK. All the legislation makes it really expensive to sell chemicals. Under these two pieces of law there is another set of labelling rules, getting complicated enough? Well the list goes on and on and on.

There are plenty of incentives for people to sell chemicals illegally, profit being hit by legislation is not something all people find acceptable, and so they break the law.

If you want to sell everything in bottles and drums you?d be in for a shock. They are really expensive, large drums (UN approved) are upwards of ?40 (in bulk) and CHIP approved bottles are upwards of ?6 each (unless you buy in silly bulk and then they come down to about ?1 each). Normal ?placcy bag?s are the commonly accepted way of shipping hazardous goods (classes 4, 5 and 9). As long as your ?placcy bag? is CHIP compliant (i.e. really strong) there really should be no problem unless you stabbed it. But then again if you stabbed a plastic bottle it would split.

Bottom line is, if you want to sell chemicals, you either do it properly (and take a kick in the balls over the old profit margin, or sell at ridiculous prices), or break all the laws. KNO3.com breaks the law and sells at ridiculous prices (what?s? going on there???). The only real way to stamp out illegal/unsafe suppliers is to buy from companies that adhere to the law. This may or may not be more expensive, but in the long run it improves the safety of everyone. I can cite examples of buying from legal companies actually being cheaper.

The main benefit of not supporting illegal chemical suppliers is we do not risk further legislation making life a misery for all. Illegal suppliers are far more likely to sell to terrorists or children, leading to accidents/incidents, and ultimately more laws restricting the sale of chemicals. And that for us means no more hobby.

#332 p_y_r_o

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Posted 10 April 2006 - 05:54 PM

lew

I don't think he's been locked up, a couple of days ago he sent me an e-mail telling me how great he packaged my order.

#333 pyrotrev

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 06:07 PM

Does anyone know what's up with Hobbychem please? They were meant to be reopening today, but I can't get a peep out of them.
Trying to do something very beautiful but very dangerous very safely....

#334 sizzle

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Posted 11 April 2006 - 06:24 PM

Does anyone know what's up with Hobbychem please? They were meant to be reopening today, but I can't get a peep out of them.


Be patient, the guy is moving house.
Category 4 Trained to BPA Level 1 Equivalent.

#335 boris_73

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 03:53 PM

Just to let you know there is a new pyro website called www.pyroplanet.co.uk which sells 50ft of visco fuse for ?8.51 it also sells other fuse such as flying fish and falling leaf, they also sell a few chemicals, i have bought my fuse from him and he is a very reliable and friendly source, he has only just opened but i delt with him before the shop came on line, and like i said he is a very reliable and friendly person.

Edited by boris_73, 12 April 2006 - 08:06 PM.


#336 Guest_PyromaniaMan_*

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 06:08 PM

The prices seem reasonable. Just out of interest does the website have a base in the UK and USA? On the website it says there are two addresses and he can supply fuse to both places with very low shipping so it seems likely...
Regards

Edited by PyromaniaMan, 12 April 2006 - 06:10 PM.


#337 boris_73

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 08:04 PM

The prices seem reasonable. Just out of interest does the website have a base in the UK and USA? On the website it says there are two addresses and he can supply fuse to both places with very low shipping so it seems likely...
Regards

im not sure, when i got my package it came from the USA, in a USPS cardboard envelope, so he might just have a base in the USA, but mine only came to about ?12 in total, which i thought was very reasonable considering we live in the UK.

Edited by boris_73, 12 April 2006 - 08:05 PM.


#338 Guest_PyromaniaMan_*

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 08:23 PM

Is that ?12 for 50 foot of visco? Amazing. Have you bought any chemicals from him?
Regards

#339 boris_73

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 09:16 PM

Is that ?12 for 50 foot of visco? Amazing. Have you bought any chemicals from him?
Regards

Yes it was for 50 ft, and i havent bought any chemicals from him, but im sure he will be just as reliable shipping the chemicals as he is shipping the fuse.

Edited by boris_73, 12 April 2006 - 09:18 PM.


#340 fishy1

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 09:42 PM

the chemical prices are a bit steep, 2oz magnesium powder for ?8!

#341 boris_73

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Posted 12 April 2006 - 10:29 PM

the chemical prices are a bit steep, 2oz magnesium powder for ?8!

i just really use them for the fuse as thats usually the harder thing to find and you usually pay much more.

#342 fishy1

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Posted 16 April 2006 - 11:20 PM

If I buy 25kg kno3 and 2kg NH4NO3 from GD, will it arouse suspicion? Is it as heavily watched as everyone makes out?

BTW, I am not making any HE's, I want it for making strontium and barium nitrates from there carbonates.

#343 littlejohny

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 01:08 AM

:unsure: buying the two together would be a bit suspicious I think.

#344 fishy1

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 08:09 AM

why would it arouse suspicion? buying 2 nitrates together is suspicious?

and if i bought something else, with it, like copper sulphate/coconut hulls etc, would that make it less suspicious?

#345 littlejohny

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Posted 17 April 2006 - 09:16 AM

Well, If I was running a business and someone came along asking to buy KNO3 and Ammonium Nitrate together, knowing what they could be used for I would personally be suspicious

Wouldn?t you think that too?

As far as I know though KNO3 Is used mainly in orchards
And In Australia Ammonium Nitrate is used in wheat farming.




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