1569 replies to this topic

[maxman]

Maxman..I love that RED!!!.. is that how good it looked in real life or does the camera add a bit of colour?..The breaks do look weird They look like they are jetting out of the top half of the shell,as you say that is were the large top plug is located?..Are you glueing 100% making sure the bond is perfect?..I rekon if the bond is perfect it could be down to the fact that your burst charge is not strong enough..The pressure build up is to slow and finding the weak link.. Lets see what happens when you try KP...

I like those white strobes,i am surprised how slow they flash ? blesser mention using 100 mesh Magnalium? Did you use 200 mesh ? which i would have thought would strobe faster..I havent a clue why your glitter did not work...Look forward to seeing more of your shells...

Sasman, Yes the red is as good in real life and what's even better is that with no strontium nitrate the comp is not hydroscopic and dries rock hard in two days!

The Blesser white strobes I made with 100mesh magnalium but if I make any in future I'll use 200 mesh. These stars are tiny. Dont be tempted to make them biger than 6x3 with 100mesh of say 6x6mm with 200mesh or you'll have white strobe hail!

Why have gamon made these shells with this weak point ( the large plug) at the top? surely it could have been made as a single section??

Would 70/30 kcl04 / charcoal be faster than using KP? Would KP be a better bet than BP? or would the preasure still not build up enough? When making KP should I just mill the charcoal and sulphur then screen in the KCL04? I have been using BP on crispies 5:1 should I try a higher ratio? 10:1maybe? I also added a couple of teasoons of lift powder as well.

I think I need to make sure that top plug is well welded somehow.

It is obviously possible to get a reasonable break this way but is it repeatable??

[portfire]

Hi.maxman what formula are using for those red's .I did a stargun test using lancaster organic KP#2 and it was pink,the powder test looked promising with only a tinge of pink but a nice red glow.Great shells BTW


dean

[Richard H]

Why have gamon made these shells with this weak point ( the large plug) at the top? surely it could have been made as a single section??

Would 70/30 kcl04 / charcoal be faster than using KP? Would KP be a better bet than BP? or would the preasure still not build up enough? When making KP should I just mill the charcoal and sulphur then screen in the KCL04? I have been using BP on crispies 5:1 should I try a higher ratio? 10:1maybe? I also added a couple of teasoons of lift powder as well.

You seem to be using the Gamon cases incorrectly. The Spanish break the plastic cases with a flash bag in the centre of the shell. The flash bag is assembled, both halves of the shell are then sealed and glued, and then the stars are poured in through the quick-fill hole at the top of the shell, and finally the leader hook plug is glued in. The shell is then pressed to get a good seal on the joins. How you can realistically expect to get good results from using black powder as a break charge I am unsure. I have used black powder as a break in small 3" plastic cylinders, but I press the cases very hard to get good breaks.

KP might be slightly better, but in Spain they almost always use flash. The Gamon cases are very good, there is nothing wrong with them, only the manner in which you are using them.

[cooperman435]

Hey Maxman

Ive the same 3" shells as you with the top plug with the leader loop on. I use plain old super glue or epoxy to bond the shell components together and have never had one fail or jet like the one in your video?

On my site Ive a video and the formula of the win 20 that I make and the effect is just as I hoped it would be. Win 20 also has the advantage of being made from much cheaper and more available chems too.

Is your burst charge on carriers or granulated Id advise using some of your fasted bp with 1.5% dextrin on rice crispies at 3:1 and consider some whistle or other booster alongside it to propagate the flame front inside the shell prior to the case breaking. The win 20 take a bit to dry but are hard as rock when ready to use, Ive burst 20 3" shells with 10g of flash each before and every one broke perfectly and all the stars survived the violent break.

[karlfoxman]

These 'Tapa' shells work a treat when made the correct way, I have made a fair few 3" ones and not had a bad break. I either use 10% wistle by weight of burst or 5g of flash to boost these open with. If your break is weak the symetry will be affected, I shot a tiger tail shell with 10% whistle and it came out perfectly. I have also made pattern shells using tapa and had them come out ok. I will assemble a 3" colour peony and show you that these do work fine when made in the correct way. For sealing I always use good old celulose paint thinners, then sqeeze the shell. Also remember if you shake the shell you should not hear and stars shifting about, they need to be held in with break charge.

[maxman]

You seem to be using the Gamon cases incorrectly. The Spanish break the plastic cases with a flash bag in the centre of the shell. The flash bag is assembled, both halves of the shell are then sealed and glued, and then the stars are poured in through the quick-fill hole at the top of the shell, and finally the leader hook plug is glued in. The shell is then pressed to get a good seal on the joins. How you can realistically expect to get good results from using black powder as a break charge I am unsure. I have used black powder as a break in small 3" plastic cylinders, but I press the cases very hard to get good breaks.

KP might be slightly better, but in Spain they almost always use flash. The Gamon cases are very good, there is nothing wrong with them, only the manner in which you are using them.

Well at least I've learnt something! I wasn't trying to say that the shells parts were faulty, I just couldnt understand why the top plug had to be seperate. But if you're telling me its a quick filling hole for stars then I now understand.

I wasnt looking for a massive break out of BP just one that I found acceptable and repeatable such as the break from my earlier posted tiger tail shell. I'll try with KP 1st to see what its like then I might have to give in and use a bit of whistle booster. I just dont fancy messing with static and impact sensative stuff. It makes me nervous!

Has anyone got any vids of these shells working as they should?

[Wyvern]

Hi.maxman what formula are using for those red's .I did a stargun test using lancaster organic KP#2 and it was pink,the powder test looked promising with only a tinge of pink but a nice red glow.Great shells BTW
dean

The Formula for buell red is

Potassium Perchlorate 8.75
Strontium Carbonate 6.25
Magnalium, granular, -200 mesh 3.5
Parlon 3.25
Red Gum 1.75
Dextrin 1.25

Info from Passfire

Ill be trying a variant of this out tonight replacing some of the Potassium perc for Strontium nitrate

Edited by Wyvern, 26 June 2007 - 12:07 PM.

[pyrotrev]

Just an idea on the busrt charge: how about using a mixture like "Benzolift"??? This for those who haven't come across it is more or less a mix of BP meal/Kperc/benzoate i.e. a hybrid between Bp and whistle. If you were using it to coat crispies etc. it might have some safety advantages over making raw whistle mix in quantity and chucking a spponful in, since you could blend the BP (previously milled) and benzoate, damp to form a slurry and only then add the perc. Depending on the proportion of the whistle ingredients it seems to be possible to adjust the burning rate to some extent. BTW K benzoate would likely be necessary, Na benzoate would probably never dry . Anyone tried anything like this?

[maxman]

The Formula for buell red is

Potassium Perchlorate 8.75
Strontium Carbonate 6.25
Magnalium, granular, -200 mesh 3.5
Parlon 3.25
Red Gum 1.75
Dextrin 1.25

Info from Passfire

Ill be trying a variant of this out tonight replacing some of the Potassium perc for Strontium nitrate

Yeah sorry I forgot to post the formula.

As I made it


Potassium Perchlorate 35
Strontium Carbonate 25
Magnalium 14
Parlon 13
Red gum 7
Dextrin 6

I wonder how well this would work for a green using barium carbonate? Has anyone tried?
Unfortunately I only have barium sulphate at the moment! Not sure if this would work.
Anyone know of a supplier online ( I know most pottery places do this ) but non seem to have online ordering, or they like to call you back for a chat! I used one some time ago to get my strontium carbonate and got a lecture of all its uses including "did I know it was used as a red flame colorant in fireworks?" No really??

[Wyvern]

I bought my Strontium Carbonate from

http://www.scarvapot...ection=PRODUCTS

They dont have online ordering but they were very helpful and also didnt lecture me on its uses, they are also pretty cheap both for the chemicals and shipping

Edit * those parts work out the same as mine if you increase the weight*

Edited by Wyvern, 26 June 2007 - 12:55 PM.

[portfire]

Excellent.Thanx for posting the formula Wyvern,maxman,it certainly is a nice red.Just one question;is the mesh size of the MgAl crucial or dosn't it matter too much? sorry to be off topic.


dean

[karlfoxman]

Maxman, I have a video of a 4" tigertail shell made with the TAPA cases I think I did show you it already. I am building a 3" with the same red formula as yours, so will show you how to make these shells work. I will most prob make 2 one with commercial bp on hulls and one with a booster charge of whistle or flash. Will see how it goes, rolled the stars today so will give them 4 days to dry then I will build the shell up.

[maxman]

Maxman, I have a video of a 4" tigertail shell made with the TAPA cases I think I did show you it already. I am building a 3" with the same red formula as yours, so will show you how to make these shells work. I will most prob make 2 one with commercial bp on hulls and one with a booster charge of whistle or flash. Will see how it goes, rolled the stars today so will give them 4 days to dry then I will build the shell up.

Excellent! I think you showed me vid but I thought it was a cylinder shell not a ball? Or that might have been another vid. I'll look forward to seeing them for comparison.

[Wyvern]

Well i launched the shell this evening despite having a rainy start to the day, but im so glad i did, ill be wanting to make many more like this.
Ill be going back to a flashbag in the shell as i find it gives a better break anyway enough waffle heres the video



and yup the end bang was my first successful crosette

Edited by Wyvern, 26 June 2007 - 10:16 PM.

[Wyvern]

Phew well im knackered just completes pumping about 200 stars 6,10,14mm Buell red with about 5% of the perc substituded for Strontium nitrate and also some nice veline blue stars.

Potassium Perchlorate 35
Strontium Carbonate 25
Magnalium 14
Parlon 13
Red gum 7
Dextrin 6

I wonder how well this would work for a green using barium carbonate? Has anyone tried?

Does anyone know whether this works?