7 replies to this topic

[bone]

I am curious to learn more about real flame effects.

As a bit of background, (and hopefully to indicate that I am not some teenaged numpty looking to blow myself up!)
I am a electro/mechanical engineer by education and trade, with an interest in pyro. (I am certified to BPA level 2 if that counts for anything).
I have been looking at the propane flame effects that are used in various situations, and wondered if anybody here could recommend where to find out more about how these effects are created, and what safeguards are needed in the construction of a propane flame unit.

Are there any regulatory bodies that would cover the design and construction of a FX flame unit? I realise there are commercial units on the market, Dragonfire? etc, however I am curious as to what is actually involved in manufacturing a safe, repeatable propane effect. Where would I go, what could I read to find out more on this subject.

I see the effects used in film and television, and fixed installations in theme parks etc, where would one learn this branch of engineering.

Please do not answer this post with a barrage of flames (pun intended) saying "Don't do it unless you are trained", as I am not "doing it" I am just trying to find out how and where one could become trained, and what would represent that training. (formal qualifications?)

[Arthur Brown]

Talk to Potterton or similar and research the gas valve used in a cantral heating boiler that gives you pilot light cantrol and main flame control and cut-off in case of pilot failure

[adamw]

As far as I know, you are free to make one for your own personal enjoyment, but if it is going to be used for a 'business' use it will have to be tested and certified.

Commercial units aren't cheap either. I got quotes for units ranging from ?800 to ?5000 depending on what it did - ie the ?800 unit was a simple gas on/off and electric igniton with all failsafes (regulator, arrestor etc) and the ?5000 unit was for building up a 'charge' of gas and then releasing it in a fireball.

[bone]

As far as I know, you are free to make one for your own personal enjoyment, but if it is going to be used for a 'business' use it will have to be tested and certified.

Adam,

That is kind of what I figured, but what testing and what certificates. This is the golden question that I seem to be hitting a brick wall trying to find an answer to.

Who would govern the design of one of these things. If, as a hypothetical, I built a safe and sound machine, which worked perfectly, and a firework display company then wanted to use these units in a 'commercial' environment, who they hell do I approach to get these things tested and certified. Whose jurisdiction do they come under?

Bone

[adamw]

I think I was told it has to be CORGI tested, but that was years ago so don't quote me on that. Anyway, that would be a good place to enquire.

[Arthur Brown]

Probably a study of LPG in vehicle use and in Hot air balloon use would help. Also a study of the gas compatabilities as hinted at in the RS book would help. As its not the fitting of domestic kit I dont think CORGI will be the only or best place for advice A lot depends on yur engineering skills to design and make the product well.

[Arthur Brown]

......... Whose jurisdiction do they come under?............

Bone

Once its Work its HSE

[alany]

Less of the legal and more on the doing-it side of things: I've been working with propane burners lately, as part of my foundry experiments. It is easy to work with, it is just like plumbing, brazing/soldering brass and steel pipes is all that is required for the burner end of things.

The actual tank, adjustable regulator, hosing and barbs, etc you can get at your local welding store. The regulator is the most important component, don't skimp on it and make sure you get a adjustable one, not a 2.5 kPa fixed unit for BBQs. A pressure gauge on the regulator is very handy. A set of sub-mm drills is an important investment too, to make jet holes. PCB drills work well with a bit of care.

I purchased a linear hose joiner and cut it up with dremel to make two hose barbs for jet assemblies. My Butane torch I use for lighting pyro was fine as a brazing torch for all the work, as was conventional electrical solder.