10 replies to this topic

[curious aardvark]

Hi folks - well this has to be the hardest forum on the net to join :-)
So hello :-)

Right. After many many years of not (much) lighting interesting things, I have recently discovered that you can actually buy the chemicals I used to 'acquire' from my school/college store rooms (no worries, this was the best part of 20 years ago) and local chemists, from actual legitimate internet suppliers in sensible amounts.

So I've got this 500g pot of potassium perchlorate sitting in my workshop looking seductively at me and whispering: 'fizz, crackle, whooossshhh' every time I go near it :-)

Now in the past I've only ever had tiny amounts of this stuff to play with and I primarily used it as an additive for my fuses (another post and from what I've read so far, better than anything I've seen on the forum)

so what can I do with it and what would YOU do with it ?
It wasn't cheap, but then these days I'm not a short-of-money student :-) So who cares. What I don't want to do is waste it.

On those lines: can I use it for making rocket motors ? If so how.
And anything else you can think of :-)

And while I'm here. I used to use carbon black for making BP (just read the post on toner as a carbon substitute and I have to disagree with one of the comments about carbon black as I used to make pretty effective BP with it). But I have a limited amount left and my mum has now retired from being a food colour chemist, so I'm not going to get any more :-) What do you lot use ? And is it any less messy than CB (that stuff gets everywhere).

Reckon that ought to do for a first post :-)

[Yugen-biki]

Hello curious aardvark!

You can probably use potassium perchlorate in a rocket motor, but I don't think it is used this way very often. And many would probably think that it would be a real waste to use in rockets. A KNO3+C+S based fuel is probably the most common, and has proven to work many time, but for KClO4 the situation is different.

Potassium perchlorate can be use to make two things that I can think of right now, where other chemicals just won't work.
The first one is colored compositions like stars or bengal fires and similar.
The second thing it can be used in is flash powder, as a safer alternative to potassium chlorate.

I can't tell you what to do with it. You have to find something you would like to make, like a rocket heading, shell, mine, fountain, comet etc. And then I can tell you what the potassium perchlorate is best used for in that device.
Like the rocket for example. I would have used the potassium perchlorate for stars in the heading and not as a fuel in the motor, because KNO3 can be used allmost every where, but not in colored stars.

Edited by Yugen-biki, 31 August 2005 - 01:59 PM.

[curious aardvark]

Right that's a start. Not for motors :-)

So what would YOU use it for ?

ps. nice website yugen-biki :-)

Edited by curious aardvark, 31 August 2005 - 02:40 PM.

[LadyKate]

Right that's a start. Not for motors :-)

So what would YOU use it for ?

ps. nice website yugen-biki :-)

Perchlorate can be used for whistle mix in rockets - much more sensitive than BP and you can't ram the rockets - they have to be pressed.

I have made Benzolift, stars, whistle burst for shells, and a limited amount of flash from perc. It can also be used to create a prime (see Veline's prime) for stars.

Stars are what use up most of my perchlorate - 90% or more.

[curious aardvark]

cool, what's benzolift ?

Edited by curious aardvark, 01 September 2005 - 03:48 PM.

[karlfoxman]

Benzolift is a mixture of standard blackpowder mixed with benzoate whistle mix and granulated. Whistle formula is as follows:

Potassium benzoate or soduim benzoate 30
Potassium perchlorate 70

This is very fast stuff and can blow moratars to bits if you over do the ammount, its good if your bp is not too good at lifting. But BP is safer and when milled is the best lift to use.

[Yugen-biki]

Right that's a start. Not for motors :-)

So what would YOU use it for ?

ps. nice website yugen-biki :-)

I would use it for stars. Maby blue, like one with Cu(II)O or CuCO3. It is fairly easy to make blue with the perchlorate. They will need a prime and I could reccomend Veline?s. You don't "need" the potassium dichromate in this prime. Just make sure it is very well milled and don't skip the wood meal. Maby it is over kill to use Veline?s and "BP + Al" would probably work, but I usually feel a bit down when I "decorate the lawn" with unlit stars.
Search the forum for blue stars (typeing: Shimizu + blue; should do it).

Thank you! I am working on a update on my website. It is going to be MUCH better.

[LadyKate]

Benzolift is a mixture of standard blackpowder mixed with benzoate whistle mix and granulated. Whistle formula is as follows:

Potassium benzoate or soduim benzoate 30
Potassium perchlorate 70

This is very fast stuff and can blow moratars to bits if you over do the ammount, its good if your bp is not too good at lifting. But BP is safer and when milled is the best lift to use.

As an added aside, don't make Benzolift without looking up how. It isn't a matter of just mixing 30/70 BP/whistle - that would make a dangerous thing to mix - the formula tames down the dangers of making it by mixing the less sensitive parts in a slurry before adding the perchlorate to make a paste and then granulating.

Look on Alan Yate's site - he has a copy of the formula. I had some really poor lift powder (Skylighter airfloat charcoal pulverone) that worked for other things so I didn't want to change charcoals. Making Benzolift out of it was a snap and Benzolift will definitely put things up in the air.

Also, a really hot BP (like Willow or Pine or Maple) will approach Benzolift's capabilities and the properties of a hot BP are better understood. For instance, I don't think I would fire more than about 10-15 grams of Benzolift - it is, after all, 70% whistle and at some point it is going to detonate. Putting xx grams of hot BP in the right sized mortar wouldn't make me flinch, though.

Since it is much easier to make Benzolift than hot BP (especially if one can't get/make the softwood charcoals), here are some small diameter rules of thumb for lift quantities that I go by (your mileage and cardboard shrapnel may vary):

1.5 to 1.75" - 2 grams of Benzolift
2" - 2.5 grams to 3 grams
3" - 5 grams

Over 3" - don't use Benzolift - use BP. Even poor lift powder can often be used for larger mortars.

Edited by LadyKate, 01 September 2005 - 08:30 PM.

[BlackMesa]

Hi - i have finally managed to make good reliable BP so o, next! would like to make some perc based comps like flash and KP, where do you guys get your KClO4?

[digger]

Hi - i have finally managed to make good reliable BP so o, next! would like to make some perc based comps like flash and KP, where do you guys get your KClO4?

I note your comment on the other thread about your shells.

Do you have any video footage of a couple of grams of your "good" powder burning so we can see how it looks?

[BlackMesa]

I'll get some footage of my next batch for you and post it. - too heavy rain for my outdoor mill to make any today