69 replies to this topic

[KNO3]

same here! I loved PIC and it is would brigten my day to find a reliable alernative to the Old PIC, I hope it still burns with the slight colour, that always inspired me!

[BigBang]

I have been looking for a replacement to PIC, and the closest i have come to finding one, is the effects fuse known as 'falling leaf fuse'. Its not in the same class as PIC, but it does burn extremely hot and fierce, is water resistant, and ignites very easily. It will even ignite Thermite.

The only drawbacks are that its not as flexible or as thin as PIC, apart from that, its great stuff...........and it comes in different colours to!

Edited by BigBang, 30 June 2006 - 01:23 PM.

[Darkstar]

I believe part of the problem with these fuses (PIC, Mantitor, Thermolite) is that
they were once used in the mining/blasting industries. Now that shock tube
(Nonel, etc.) has become the "fuse" of choice in this area (cheaper, safer, faster)
the market for igniter cord has shrunk. Pyro and rocketry use is not enough to
mantain economic viability, hence the dropping of product lines (most, if not all
the Thermalite range followed by the PIC range, blue, brown and yellow).

I first saw Mantitor fuse at the 1995 PGI convention, sold as a replacement for
dwindling stocks of Thermalite. I suggested to Tom (Essex Pyro) that it might be a
good substitute for PIC. The constant "will they, won't they" (continue manufacture)
antics of ICI Nobel, plus the ever increasing price, eventually forced the issue.

There may now be a problem with Mantitor, as their production lines are tied up
for some time.

We're looking into alternative sources, but stock of Mantitor is ok for the moment.

Tom doesn't think the Chinese visco factories would be capable of producing a
replacement, though the technology must exist in China, as PIC would appear
to be made along similar lines to electrical cable.

Paul

[Mumbles]

I recently aquired a small amount of thermolite for crossette purposes. I mean a VERY small amount(8" or so). It appears to be made in a manner similar to visco. It's a bit different from what I understand than the UK's PIC. Essentially it looks to be a wire or string coated with a comp in a manner similar to blackmatch. Additionally it is wrapped in a spiral thin guage wire, I'd say 8 wires or so. In the opposite rotation there are about 8 plastic ribbons. The wires and ribbon are similar to the cotton string in visco. The plastic ribbons are useless. They just designate the speed. I happen to have yellow. The wire wrapping seems to allow it to bend and keep shape. The wires don't touch so wouldn't have any sort of fire resistant properties. Perhaps they are just there to keep the composition more in place. I am not sure it's exact purpose.

Dan Williams has a imatation thermolite page here: http://www.pyrotechn...thermalite.html

Anyone with a visco machine could probably easily adapt it to make this with the wires. Use his comp and a thin string, and replace the cotton wrappings with metal wire. My main uses for thermolite just require straight segments, so I don't know if I even need the wire. I may experiment with that in some crossettes and see how they go compared to the commercial thermolite.

[Mortartube]

I don't know if Ron Lancaster still sells Wasag fuse, but that may be useful at a pinch. There are 3 speeds but it's not waterproof. The slowest is faster than slow PIC if I recall correctly.

[Darkstar]

I don't know if Ron Lancaster still sells Wasag fuse, but that may be useful at a pinch. There are 3 speeds but it's not waterproof. The slowest is faster than slow PIC if I recall correctly.

Yes, Kimbolton still sell it - but they only have two versions. I've never seen a 3rd speed.
It's ok for some purposes, but lack of water resistance and the way it looses its powder
from the end are problematic.

Paul

[Darkstar]

I recently aquired a small amount of thermolite for crossette purposes. I mean a VERY small amount(8" or so). It appears to be made in a manner similar to visco. It's a bit different from what I understand than the UK's PIC.

I've seen Thermalite close up, but never used it. The wires seem to be a pain in the
tushie from what I've seen! I'm guessing they are stainless steel and there for the
same reason as the wires in PIC and Mantitor - to control the burn rate.

The central copper wire in Mantitor is quite loose compared to PIC and can be pulled out.
With the wire that runs along the outside of the composition also removed, it makes the
fuse burn at almost quickmatch speed! The side wire is probably stainless, as it shows
no tarnishing.

I'm still fairly sure that Thermolite (or at least the "pink" version I saw) use a lead
tetraoxide/silicon base as PIC and Mantitor and not the DIY mix.

Paul

[Mortartube]

Yes, Kimbolton still sell it - but they only have two versions. I've never seen a 3rd speed.
It's ok for some purposes, but lack of water resistance and the way it looses its powder
from the end are problematic.

Paul

Kimbolton used to recommend spraying it with a silicone based sealant (the type used to waterproof brickwork, in an aerosol can) and a bit of brown tape over the end (after it's been fused up). I never tried this so I can't comment on it's success.

[Mumbles]

Oh I'm sure the DIY mix is not used. It may be possible to use as an acceptable substitute though for attempting to make a similar homemade product though. Even replacing that mix for the BP in blackmatch for a viscomachine may produce a good result. I've only made one batch of crossettes with the thermolite, and frankly it kicks ass. First ever attempt at crossettes and they worked flawlessly. I would me interested in making a product at home that could replace the impossible to find thermolite.

[Darkstar]

I've only made one batch of crossettes with the thermolite, and frankly it kicks ass. First ever attempt at crossettes and they worked flawlessly. I would me interested in making a product at home that could replace the impossible to find thermolite.

Have you tried Mantitor instead of Thermalite?

[BigG]

Have you tried Mantitor instead of Thermalite?

Darkstar, if you refer to using Mantitor as a replacement for PIC, it seem like quite a few people have been trying it lately. From what I hear (and in this case, I do not talk from personal knowledge), it has a problem taking fire from other fuses. Some companies used PIC as a "quick" delay to fire lines of shells or mines (when punctuation was not critical). It seem like Mantitor is not doing well in that department. There were a few other remarks as well, but it was all over the phone so I can't remember it all...

[Mumbles]

Mantitor is hard to get in the US. There are only two places that sell it, and one is going out of business. To get it in the US one needs to have an ATFE HE licence of which I am lacking. I am also not able to get said licence for a few years. I will at least try to acquire a sample and test it. The poorer taking fire property may pose a problem in crossettes.

[Darkstar]

Darkstar, if you refer to using Mantitor as a replacement for PIC, it seem like quite a few people have been trying it lately. From what I hear (and in this case, I do not talk from personal knowledge), it has a problem taking fire from other fuses. Some companies used PIC as a "quick" delay to fire lines of shells or mines (when punctuation was not critical). It seem like Mantitor is not doing well in that department. There were a few other remarks as well, but it was all over the phone so I can't remember it all...

PIC and Mantitor share a common heritage, I believe, due to ICI's ammunition manufacturing
interests in Brazil via Kynoch (click the link below to read some history of Nobel/ICI/Kynoch etc.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kynoch

However, they do differ in several areas. The central copper wire is the same
diameter - 0.5mm - but there is about 1/3rd less composition adhered to it.
(I don't have exact figures for comp mass per metre, but could obtain them
when I next have access to a lab balance - or maybe they are on the spec
sheets).

The plastic sleeve is thicker than on PIC, which might account for the reported
difficulty in taking fire. The composition is dusted with a fairly coarse metal
powder, most likely aluminium. A second wire of .45mm diameter, probably
stainless, runs between the comp and the sleeve. This may also account for
the difficulty taking fire, as it may act as a heat sink.

ICI's once mighty empire extended further than Brazil and possibilities exist
elsewhere. Watch this space!

Paul

[Richard H]

I think AEL / Orica do a range of igniter cords, I seem to remember asking a quote for them, around ?600 a case IIRC, and it's 1.4S so can go by air, which is just as well as they are based in NZ.

[Darkstar]

I think AEL / Orica do a range of igniter cords, I seem to remember asking a quote for them, around ?600 a case IIRC, and it's 1.4S so can go by air, which is just as well as they are based in NZ.

The AEL (African Explosives Limited of South Africa) product line certainly looks
interesting! I think Tom (Essex) has tried to make contact, but not received
a reply.

The Orica product line just appears to be ICI stuff. I didn't know there was a 4th
type of PIC - "Special Slow" (red). I doubt these are actually available, unless
manufacturing continues in New Zealand, which seems unlikely as the website
links are for "UK and Ireland".

I'd really love to find a reel of PW6 somewhere! ICI gave me a contact a few
years ago, but like a fool I never followed it up....