15 replies to this topic

[Damp Squib]

Great forum guys its great to finally have a little chat about one of my more 'Taboo' interests

As the title suggests is there a way to identify beyond doubt a willow tree during winter,I have searched many agricultural sites and encyclopedias and have found there are tens of species of willow tree,all of whome look totally different

I'v done a search and read all of the topics that contain 'willow' but havnt found anything,if anyone has any advice or links I'd be much obliged

Squib

P.S UK species please

Edited by Damp Squib, 05 January 2006 - 05:06 PM.

[seymour]

There are many descriptions of willow trees both on this frum and elsware, but if you are unable to identify a willow tree when you see one, a description will be unlikely to help you much. My advice is to get someone who knows what a willow tree looks like to show you. Although there are many different types of Willow all can be easily identified by the bark, and wood properties, a small twig should snap cleanly without splintering. Another way of dentifying a willow is locatin, many species of willow favour damp ground, and although they will grow elseware they are often found in significant numbers near streams and swamps.

[paul]

Just to mention: Willow is of course one of the best choices, BUT a few others do a great job in firefly mixtures and blackpowder, too!

Pine and poplar for example. Even with not too fine BBQ hardwood charcoal you can get nice sparks.

Ordinary white pine or spruce is perfectly ok for good black powder if willow is not available!

[lew]

You could always just buy it already ball milled.

There are auctions for willow charcoal on ebay, and websites that sell it for ?12 for 500 grams.

I must admit, it can be fun to make it yourself, but its so bloody messy the novalty soon wears off.

?12 for 500 grams is OK considering that it's gonna make 3.5 kilos of very good black powder.

[Damp Squib]

Thanks for the replies The use of the willow charcoal is purely for rocket propellant,I'm obsessed with making every part of my rockets from the simplest possible element,the experimentation and testing is what most excites me and to put willow charcoal black powder propellant feather in my cap and to have the first hand knowlege to say willow is a great charcoal or not

I'v tested many kinds of wood charcoals 'I have a charcoal cooker set up',so far the best for me has been balsa that I only tried a few days ago,its so heads and shoulders above any other wood I'v tried I'd just like to see how willow stacks up against it

So I'm looking for a tree in damp ground,could be near a stream or pond,a friend has suggested the branches often hang over water this is what makes the wood springy for cricket bats,bows and such,the branches also have to snap with a clean crack

Right then looks like I'v almost got an adventure,I'll post some pics if I find anything

cheers

[broadsword]

Check this out... http://www.ukrocketr...indpost&p=19597

[Kevin J]

I don't know if willow is really the best kind of charcoal. Has anyone else tested this?
I did a fairly extensive experiment concerning which kind of charcoal was the best. I made charcoal and then black powder using the same procedure from about 15 different kinds of live wood.
I ball milled them for approximately the same amount of time and then tested the burning speed, launching power, and amount of sparks generated.
Balsam Fir was easily the fastest burning and best at launching, Trembling Aspen and Balsam Poplar were the next best.
The willow was not that good.

[broadsword]

Willow is widely known as one of the best (easily accessable) charcoals for quick BP used in lift.

It would really depend on what you were looking to make with your BP:

If im making lift i use willow, if im making BP rockets then I either use extra willow or a mix of willow and BBQ.

If im making fountains then I will use pine.

And thats about it! Ive heard other people use balsa and alder etc. and they all seem to work well. General rule of thumb and hardwood will be good i believe.

[Damp Squib]

Cheers broadsword those pics are really helpful I'll take some prints off on my ramble ,balsa is slightly on the expensive side compared to free wood, I pay ?5 for a 600g bundle of balsa which makes around 120g of charcoal which I totally dont mind paying,I wouldnt like to buy the 120g of charcoal straight from the shop for ?5, it seems like cheating to me and you miss out on the charcoal cook

The most improtant aspects to me are energy density and burn speed for the sole purpose of propelling end burning rockets and model air frames,I have made quite successfull end burning motors with BBQ charcoal,the milling time though was a bit of a pain 'I like to run my ball mill as little as possible ' and also you could tell theres alot of ash as the charcoal powder came out greyish and more so the black powder,extra space taken up in the motor with useless ash

I love cooking up charcoal,its becoming a bit of an obsession ,I hope I have time to go rambling tomorrow,2 inch diameter branches are also regarded as the best as they contain the right amount of dissolved sugars,impurities and sap I have read on many sites please agree or correct,jeez branch diameter is whole nuther load of experiments

Thanks squib

Edited by Damp Squib, 07 January 2006 - 11:04 PM.

[sizzle]

Well, it looks like i'm going to have to give in and go and find some willow, only problem being I have nowhere to cook it. I'll find a solution. If I can't make fast enough lift with it then I will have to give in and pay the ?12 for 500g.

[ProfHawking]

dont do that, i think its a bit much. If you get desperate let me know.

edit: actually, after going over the maths with postage and whathaveyou, mine doesnt work out that much cheaper. S'up to you

Edited by ProfHawking, 08 January 2006 - 01:28 AM.

[Kevin J]

Yes, I know it is generally excepted that willow is the best. But has anybody actually tested it themselves. I did, and my results were very conclusive I thought.

[Rhodri]

Many people on this forum have demostrated that Willow C is the superior form for pyro.

"Seek and ye shall find"

[koobee]

Yes it is practically unanimous that willow charcoal is superior to most other forms of charcoal. Does it produce a better charcoal tail as well? Here is a random thought (please forgive me, or ignore.) comercial fountains often have small stars pressed in the bp so it produces the effect of a small golden shower with little stars spraying everywhere. Could we reproduce this effect with a 1lb rocket? It seems possible if the fuel could be adjusted to accomodate the tiny stars in the motor, it might be able to still lift a small 3" shell. hmmmmmmm thoughts... I appologize for the complete irrelevancy of the previous remarks.

Edited by koobee, 13 January 2006 - 05:46 PM.

[Damp Squib]

pyro effects is not my bag but feel free to discuss in my thread ,why dont you guys try seiving some small charcoal granuals and soaking them in nitrate,I doubt you would even need to use nitrate if your using balsa coal as it burns red hot on its own,if you would like the sparks to give off lots of bright golden light use sodium nitrate soaked charcoal granuals

The size of them would be pretty critical, too small and they wouldnt burn long enough,too large and youd end up with a clogged nozzle and CATO

but the fun is in the experimenting

EDIT koobee is that a real shell effect in your avatar?

Edited by Damp Squib, 13 January 2006 - 07:58 PM.