30 replies to this topic

[Jacques]

Hi people I want to ask you all what?s the normal burning rate for black powder
The fastest I have timed are homemade ?10g Burning Rate = Average 1.87 sec?

And another thing I have very big problems with making mortars/mines it doesn?t want to shoot into the air so good, it only goes puff and like Max 1 meters in the air can anyone please give me a idea I already checked out almost al the websites regarding in making this stuff but it seems like I?m having bad luck. Are there a possibility that my BP are burning to slow it seems like that to me!?

I?ve also made the stars.

The info are from ?Quick and Easy Mines? from http://userpages.pre.../dwilliamsmaine
The website is probably offline the last time I have checked -10/1/2006

[Pieman]

I'm not sure what your problem is with the lift powder; but if you want to re-read that tutorial it can be found at:
http://www.wecreate4...ines/mines.html
Dan Williams's home page is:
http://www.wecreate4...lliams/top.html

Are you using meal powder or have you granulated it?

[adamw]

10g should go 'poof' faster than you can press start / stop on a timer!

In other words, your powder is too slow!! Also, regarding the lifting ability, if the powder is not to blame, is the shell a good fit? If not, most of the lift gasses will escape around the sides, making for a bad launch.

[Jacques]

Ok, I don?t know the differences between meal powders or granulated.

My powder are mixed together and in a ball mill very fine powdered

So can you people please help me to make my Black Powder faster than 1.87 sec?

I tried the standard formula 10/15/75 but that dos not work so good it doesn?t burn so clean and the speed are ?10g Burning Rate = 04.83?

I?m using now 66.6/22.2/11.1 Arderne (laboratory recipe, composition as of 1350)

Burning rate are Average = 1.87 sec that?s way more better then my first powder 1 years back

?10g Burning Rate = 05.35 sec? standard BP

So I get shocked to see BP burn 2 meter line in les than a sec

Edited by Jacques, 28 January 2006 - 07:10 AM.

[Damp Squib]

I have found if your bp speed increases when adding more charcoal even after milling your charcoal probably of poor quality

[Jacques]

I have found if your bp speed increases when adding more charcoal even after milling your charcoal probably of poor quality

So what kind of charcoal do you prefer?

I use Invader bush form Namibia or something like that I'm not 100% sure, to me its all the same

Edited by Jacques, 28 January 2006 - 09:47 AM.

[Frozentech]

So what kind of charcoal do you prefer?

I use Invader bush form Namibia or something like that I'm not 100% sure, to me its all the same

The charcoal most commonly said to be "best" for production of Black Powder is willow. I personally use cottonwood, as it is so common in my area ( I have to prune or remove it from my property annually ) and it works very well. Grapevine charcoal from the woody trunk of the vines is reputed to be excellent. If you search here and on the rec.pyrotechnics usenet newsgroup, you will find endless discussions of "which charcoal is best" with proponents for many varieties.

Regardless of the wood used, it is important the charcoal be completely carbonized, but not oxidized to ash. Again, a search online will show several techniques for making high quality charcoal.

What type of ball mill, and milling media are you using ?

How long are you milling the powder ?

Are you using an accurate scale to weigh your components ?

With proper charcoal, the classic 75:15:10 ratio, and an efficient ball mill, you should be getting much faster results, with NO "pearl" residue, and little or no ash from your powder, almost all the combustion products will be in the form of gasses and smoke

The other factor, concerning meal or granulated powder : From the ball mill, the powder is referred to as meal, mill dust, meal dust, etc. Good lift powder will be in the form of granules. One way to granulate it is to make 'pulverone', by dampening the meal powder slightly, just enough to form a ball when you squeeze it, and push it through a screen ( I use a "10 mesh" screen - US measurement, in EU that would be 2.0mm openings screen ) and let it dry well. The other way is called corning, and is a bit more involved, you can find information about that online, here in this forum even.

Good luck, and Stay Green !

[Jacques]

I made myself a ball mill from legos because I have no other option and it uses marbles to do the job instead of lead balls, it just take very longer but its ok I mill my powder 2 days then its very fine

I bought myself a digital electronic scale week 2 days ago, before that I used a old small scale for kitchen use I had no other option. I see 10g on that old scale are = 16g on the new scale
so I see already my first problem.

But the charcoal story are very messy, I hate to make that I use a old coffee mill hand driven it's a very messy job

And my other BIG problem is I have limited resources in getting mills and other stuff to make fireworks
I mill my powders 2 days

Edited by Jacques, 28 January 2006 - 11:17 AM.

[Frozentech]

I made myself a ball mill from legos because I have no other option and it uses marbles to do the job instead of lead balls, it just take very longer but its ok I mill my powder 2 days then its very fine

I bought myself a digital electronic scale week 2 days ago, before that I used a old small scale for kitchen use I had no other option. I see 10g on that old scale are = 16g on the new scale
so I see already my first problem.

But the charcoal story are very messy, I hate to make that I use a old coffee mill hand driven it's a very messy job

And my other BIG problem is I have limited resources in getting mills and other stuff to make fireworks
I mill my powders 2 days

Well, getting an accurate scale is an important first step toward pyro success.

I suspect that your milling process is not efficient. I do not have my references here ( probably some others on here have the info close at hand ) but.... glass marbles are not very effective as media, due to being light weight, and potentially hazardous to mill BP with. It would be good to know the size ( diameter and length ) of your jar, material the jar is made of, and the RPM of the jar. Possibly all your mill is doing is mixing the powders well, without the shearing and compressing action required for effective milling ?

Not very much you can do about charcoal mess, other than crush/grind it outdoors, with a filter mask to avoid the "black snot" ( as I call it) in your nose afterwards. I grind mine in an electric coffee grinder, small quantities at a time. It only needs to be ground for a few seconds, it doesn't take long to make 250 grams of fine powder from charcoal.

I would recommend that if you are unable to build your own ball mill, that you try a quality "rock tumbler" style. They take a bit longer than a purpose-built pyro mill, but they do work ! Actually I use commercial jars in my homebuilt mill, because I like the "Thumlers" brand of rubber walled milling jars much more than PVC, for noise and safey concerns.

[Jacques]

Yes, my milling process is not efficient but it works well for my it’s makes the bp very fine like dust and I have seen the finer the faster.

I think to use glass marbles is also safe. Glass doesn’t make sparks

All my shells are very successful the only problem is it needs somebody to toss it in the air a few meters and that is very dangerous to do, because then that puppy explode it make stars almost 20 meter radius but so I need a way to projectile it high in the sky.

The only way to do that is rockets “but al my rockets explode with terror” or to put bp under the shell with a delay fuse but my bp burn to slow and that my biggest problem

So I think I need to make safe flash powder with chemicals available near me in Cape Town

Edited by Jacques, 29 January 2006 - 06:53 AM.

[Pretty green flames]

Yes, my milling process is not efficient but it works well for my it?s makes the bp very fine like dust and I have seen the finer the faster.

I think to use glass marbles is also safe. Glass doesn?t make sparks

All my shells are very successful the only problem is it needs somebody to toss it in the air a few meters and that is very dangerous to do, because then that puppy explode it make stars almost 20 meter radius but so I need a way to projectile it high in the sky.

The only way to do that is rockets ?but al my rockets explode with terror? or to put bp under the shell with a delay fuse but my bp burn to slow and that my biggest problem

So I think I need to make safe flash powder with chemicals available near me in Cape Town

1. I'm not going to say that marbles spark or ot but the fact is they chip easily and they're lightweight. You need something heavy and non-sparking. The ideal choice is lead (look for some fishing sinkers around where you live), also on this forum people use brass cylinders with great succes.

2. Throwing shells is one of the most stupid things you can do. First get your BP problems sorted out theny continiu with making shells.

3. Rokcets are indeed a great way for putting a shell to a great height but rockets which usestandard meal powder directly from the ball mill will most likely explode, unless it's an end burner. Try simply screening you propellant mix if your rockets are core burners.

4. And don't even think of putting flash powder in you mortar instead of BP.

[paul]

Yeah, flash powder is by FAR the most stupid stuff to use as lift charge. And did you know that it produces nearly no gases?! So, how could your shell lift succesfuly with flash powder?!

Don?t even try to work with flash powder if you haven?t managed to make propper black powder! For lifting there nearly is no alternative to good black powder.

It?s the ESSENTIAL.

[Jacques]

Yeah I understand but I really am out of ideas of making good black powder
That I want to make flash powder but I understand flash powder are only for explosions the reasons I wanted to use flash powder for lift charge where there because my BP burn crappy

But thank you all for helping me, I appreciate it, your helpful at least I can talk to my type of people because where I life I?m the only guy in the radius of 200km probably who work with pyro tech

Pretty green flames your website rocks I think I?m going to download it now

I see in the pyrotechnics compositions your cocoa powder and other you must add dextrin what?s the effect on the mix

[Pretty green flames]

I see in the pyrotechnics compositions your cocoa powder and other you must add dextrin what?s the effect on the mix

Dextrin is there as a binder, it help by making your lift granules harder so they don't get crushed in the lift cup.

[Jacques]

so pretty green flames what do you prefer I must do now to make my Black powder better

my scale only do 2g units min

Edited by Jacques, 29 January 2006 - 01:43 PM.