27 replies to this topic

[Frozentech]

It bothers me that they even use the word 'pyrotechnics' in this article, a better term would be 'pyroidiocy ' ?

http://www.signonsan...-explosion.html

[sizzle]

Who on earth is stupid enough to fill a baloon with acetylene and then put it in their bloody car? That really is ridiculous, what on earth were they thinking? It's this kind of thing that gets our hobby a bad name - even though I can't see what that has to do with Pyrotechnics.

[alany]

Ethyne is evil, evil stuff, it can detonate without oxygen with extreme violence. Still it is pretty scary how much damage a ballon full did to the car.

[Andrew]

It a shame it didn't kill the idiot.

Nice point at the bottom, apparently in the US it is illegal to even cook using a gas cooker!!!!!!! (Use of an explosive). Stupid law, if they used it to it's proper extent, there would not be a single free person; they'd all be locked up.

But you can own a minigun!

[Frozentech]

It a shame it didn't kill the idiot.

Nice point at the bottom, apparently in the US it is illegal to even cook using a gas cooker!!!!!!! (Use of an explosive). Stupid law, if they used it to it's proper extent, there would not be a single free person; they'd all be locked up.

But you can own a minigun!

Do you have any idea what you're talking about ? It's not illegal to use a gas cooker. It is illegal to use acetylene welding gas ( it would melt your supposed 'gas cooker' to slag by the way ) for purposes for which it was not intended, such as deliberately constructing a destructive device. Try it in Britain and I am just guessing, you would be arrested as well. What is the UK legal definition of destructive device just out of curiousity ? Here in the US the list is long, and includes molotov cocktails, rockets with over 4 ounces of propellant, and many more.... large balloons full of fuel are in there someplace.

Do you seriously think it's legal for a non BATF licensed individual to own a mini-gun ? Which mini-gun ? M-134? I suppose you think people run around with GAU-8's ? I guess if you were into collecting enough, you could get an old gatling gun as a 'relic', and fix that up. I take it you get your facts from movies, like 'Predator' ? Cool mini guns in there eh ? Of course, the reality would be 2 seconds of firing with a 100 lb + ammo load. Ohh, and being driven onto your back in about .4 secs from the continuous recoil.

Also, I am very *glad* it did not kill the idiot or anyone else. Any death where the news media blindly uses the word 'pyrotechnics' just goes a little further toward giving society the "pyrotechics = bad" association.

[zookeeper]

Any death where the news media blindly uses the word 'pyrotechnics' just goes a little further toward giving society the "pyrotechics = bad" association.

Do you recall the Rhode Island nightclub fire?

The news media, for the longest time, called it a "fireworks" accident, a total misuse of terms!
It was an "indoor pyrotechnic" accident.

...but you are correct, the media loves to bash ANY fireworks or pyrotechnics by calling them an EXPLOSIVE device.

ie: "Several explosive devices were confiscated, by police, from the teenagers...video at 10!"

( it would melt your supposed 'gas cooker' to slag by the way )

[Andrew]

The lingo here is "IED" (improvised explosive device); having worked for a couple of government agencies in the know about this sort of stuff, I do know what I am talking about.

The law mentioned in the report is as follows ?possession, use, or removal of explosives or incendiary devices?.
Natural gas, (the sort that comes out of your cooker, NOT C2H2, propane or butane) can form an explosive mix with air in any volumetric content between 4% and 60%ish. So under the law mentioned it is illegal to own or use your cooker.

Sure there are exceptions, but how does one define ?purposes for which it was not intended?. Do you have a stupidly long list on the statute, along with detailed definitions for each possible breach of the law? How does one define the intended use?

As you mentioned it is sad when anyone dies, but it is because of idiots like these that the restriction by law becomes even tighter; ever heard of the ?nanny state?? It is also a shame when ill informed members of the press publish dribble; it tends to have a negative effect on people like us. One can liken many press persons to charlatans, in fact they generally are, and here in the UK I have seen thousands to misguided reports. In all forms of the media.

On the guns point, here it is illegal for anyone to own a "specially dangerous weapon". In the US you can own what you like, it does not matter if you need a bit of paper with your name on it, the fact still remains you can own one!

With respects to movies, I tend to watch Hollywood actions movies as comedy, they are so funny, car blowing up and all! I source my information from rather more reliable places.

Edited by Andrew, 09 February 2006 - 10:54 AM.

[Frozentech]

The law mentioned in the report is as follows ?possession, use, or removal of explosives or incendiary devices?.
Natural gas, (the sort that comes out of your cooker, NOT C2H2, propane or butane) can form an explosive mix with air in any volumetric content between 4% and 60%ish. So under the law mentioned it is illegal to own or use your cooker.

Sure there are exceptions, but how does one define ?purposes for which it was not intended?. Do you have a stupidly long list on the statute, along with detailed definitions for each possible breach of the law? How does one define the intended use?

The courts define the intended use. The actual law defining destructive devices in the US is not long at all...3 paragraphs basically give a judge plenty of latitude to decide what one is. A judge in the State of Tennessee declared a rock thrown from a highway overpass that hit and killed someone, to be a destructive device. When the courts work like that we would almost be better off with a long, specific list. Instead the law is full of arguable points and generalities. Another case in the State of Oregon has an 8th grade student losing his appeal on conviction of charges of manufacturing destructive devices, for hammering flat a piccolo pete whistling fountain. (stupid yes - why is it the stupid ones seem to create so much case law? )

The relevant section of US Federal law is United States Code, Title 25, Section 5845, paragraph (f).

On the guns point, here it is illegal for anyone to own a "specially dangerous weapon". In the US you can own what you like, it does not matter if you need a bit of paper with your name on it, the fact still remains you can own one!

Sorry that you cannot. Those 'bits of paper' by the way, are about as simple to get as the 'bits of paper' that allow an electric utility company to operate a nuclear power station. How does UK law define "specially dangerous weapon" ?

[Andrew]

How does UK law define "specially dangerous weapon" ?

Probably with a million words of legal mumbo jumbo. Not exactly sure, but here are few of the restrictions I personaly know of.

Air rifles are not allowed to give the projectile more than 16 joules of energy. (about enough to just penetrate the skin at 6' range)
Total ban of hand guns
Only breach loaded shot guns are allowed, a while ago they tried to ban double barreled shot guns.
HVRs are controlled as if they were nuclear waste. Only game keepers are allowed them, and all redundant rifles need to be surendered.

[lord_dranack]

Air rifles are not allowed to give the projectile more than 16 joules of energy. (about enough to just penetrate the skin at 6' range)
Total ban of hand guns
Only breach loaded shot guns are allowed, a while ago they tried to ban double barreled shot guns.
HVRs are controlled as if they were nuclear waste. Only game keepers are allowed them, and all redundant rifles need to be surendered.

In the UK prohibited firearms are:

Section 5 (1)

(a) any firearm which is so designed or adapted that two or more missiles can be successively discharged without repeated pressure on the trigger.

(ab) any self-loading or pump-action rifled gun other than one which is chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges.

(aba) any firearm which either has a barrel less than 30cm in length or is less than 60cm in length overall, other than an air weapon, a muzzle-loading gun or a firearm designed as signalling apparatus.

(ac) any self-loading or pump-action smooth bore gun which is not an air weapon or chambered for .22 rim-fire cartridges and either has a barrel less than 24 inches in length or is less than 40 inches in length overall.

(ad) any smooth bore revolver gun other than one which is chambered for 9mm rim-fire cartridges or a muzzle-loading gun.

(ae) any rocket launcher, or any mortar, for projecting a stabilised missile, other than a launcher or mortar designed for line throwing or pyrotechnic purposes or as signalling apparatus.

(af) any air rifle, air gun or air pistol which uses, or is designed or adapted for use with, a self-contained gas cartridge system.

(b ) any weapon of whatever description designed or adapted for the discharge of any noxious liquid, gas or other thing.

(c ) any cartridge with a bullet so designed to explode on or immediately before impact, any ammunition containing or designed or adapted to contain any such noxious thing as is mentioned in paragraph (b ) above and, if capable of being used with a firearm of any description, any grenade, b**b or other like missile, or rocket or shell designed to explode as aforesaid.

(taken from http://www.met.polic...es/f_prohb1.htm

[damocov]

Sorry I nead to correct a dangerous misapprehension that andrew is under.

Air rifles are not allowed to give the projectile more than 16 joules of energy. (about enough to just penetrate the skin at 6' range)

Not quite true, the legal limit for an air rifle in the UK (not including NI) without holding a Firearms certificate is 12 foot-pounds which is a measure of force (the energy is proportional to the mass multiplied by the force and then by the distance over which the force is acting).

That's pretty irrelevant however, what is relevant is that a 12 foot-pound air rifle even at .177 calibre will do a lot more than just break the skin at 6 foot!

Our 6 Yard (5.45m) range has behind the targets, metal pellet catchers, 2 layers of heavy carpet seperated by 3 inches and a ply wood back board 2 foot behind that.

If a shooter misses the pellet catcher then after piercing on most occaisions both layers of carpet the pellet will often still have enough power to embed into the plywood by about 1mm.

At .22 calibre as a teenager I used to shoot rabbits at 20m with a 12 foot-pound air rifle the pellet would cross 20m of air and then easily go deep into the body or head of the rabbit with enough force to kill it.

Air rifles are not a toy and you are in danger of badly injuring somone if you go around beliving they will only just pierce the skin at 6 foot!

Before anyone gets upset about shooting, could I point out that the most dangerous thing I shoot at now is a 8"x8" paper target, and we did used to eat the rabbits we cleared off my uncles farm so it wasn't just for fun.

[zookeeper]

Those 'bits of paper' by the way, are about as simple to get as the 'bits of paper' that allow an electric utility company to operate a nuclear power station.

...at least living in Alaska doesn't cool your wit!

[Plays with Fire]

Those 'bits of paper' by the way, are about as simple to get as the 'bits of paper' that allow an electric utility company to operate a nuclear power station.

You see, those bits of paper are not quite necissary if one wanted to own a dangerous weapon, even a gun. It's quite simple to buy a gun from a guy in a van, usually a white van (don't know why). Not that I've done it or anything...
On a more truthful note, I've never bought such a gun, or any gun; the waste of pyrotechnic-like engineering that goes in to guns, could instead be used to develop ways of making fireworks prettier, shinier, sparklier, cheaper, and safer. But no, you people...okay bad choice of words...you US politions and gun-nuts have to always say, "tomorrow with be sunny - let's start a war!" or "hey, we already owe other countries over several trillion (or billion, or whatever) in debt - let's spend money on more planes and tanks!"

Okay, glad I got that out of my system...but seriously these bits of paper can be gotten with a fake I.D./drivers liscence with a crooked picture, and handwritten text...gun dealers in major cities (Los Angeles Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, Detroit, oh and did I mention Detroit?!) look the other way, as long as you pay cash...or, well...um...so I've heard...yeah, I'll stick with that...so I've heard...

I mean how many times have you heard reports of gun stores being successfully robbed??? It's a conspiracy: the gun dealers sell the guns to criminals, then break a window or two, and saw through some wrought-iron bars. Then, hey what a surprise, they report them stolen, get insurance payout, and pocket the cost of the guns they sold to criminals!!! Of course the police would get suspicios, *looks back and forth nervously* but they're in on it too, and the mayor, and Diana...THE PRINCESS YOU NINNY!!! They're all out to get me...I know it...I'll think I'll get them first *insideous laughter*. Perfect, ha-ha...I'll get them and expose them for the lies, the very lies that they built their entire lives and careers on...Then you'll see...you'll all see...

You think that her death was an accident, no, the driver all says, "I didn't mean to crash..we were coming out of a tunnel and then - and then - ummmm, the Princess was drunk, so there!" But no, we know better...It started with a plot organized by Tom Cruise, but George Clooney got in over his head, and when Diana found out, they had her killed...the driver shot her in the head four times before the crash!!! He was paid to by Modanna (she provided the front by organizing a prostitution ring!), but, "wouldn't the coroners report show the wounds?" you ask. NO!!! He was paid off by a renegade Ukranian mobster, who was subsequentally shot by George Clooney to cover his tracks. The mob leader, unsuspecting of the renagadeness, had George Clooney killed...ever wonder why he was written off of ER??? Because he's dead!!!

Now I know what you're thinking...what you're always thinking...you think I'm crazy - crazy?! I'm the only one who sees clearly, not only was Modonna involved, but she was caught!!! She would have been exposed had the US president not been in on it...she provided him with a multitude of prostitutes in order to have all the investigating officers brought to Guantanamo Bay and tortured by brainwashed soldiers until they forgot what the investigation was about!!! It's a fact...an undeniable fact!
But the president couldn't have been in on it alone..noooooo...such a feat would have been too difficult to pull off on his own...so he bought a disposable cell phone, and used it to call, who but our seemingly enemy, 0$*ma 81n-L*d3n!!! He used the war as a front, and the troops as a method of remaining in contact, with 0$*ma's troops who the US military Forces make fake, realistic animations of our troop killing in order to mantain an apperance of anomosity, so no one would suspect the conspiracy...!!!

You'll all see one day...one day you'll all see..you all now say I'm crazy...CRAZY?!?! Am I the only sane one?! The only person in this conspiring world who has an intellectual capacity greater than that of a grape-friut, and can see past the lies and the deception, and realize what's actually going on!!!!! But you just go about your daily lives, playing, no, scrap that, being dumb, blissfully unaware of the plotting, spying, conspiring world around us!!! One of these days - one of these day, I tell you..you'll see...but it will be too late; by then you'll all have been killed by the army of robotic Ted Bundys, made from capitol gotten by the cocaine exports of the Ukranian mob!!! You see, it's all coming together...all of it...the world come full cricle as the conspiracys are finally revealed...*Insideous Laughter*


*Edit: After writing this post, my mother entered the room, and reminded me to take my medication, so I did...so, uh...well , let's just pretend that all of that was some type of joke...yeah, thats it - a joke. I obviously was kidding, sheesh, you silly silly man...

Edited by Plays with Fire, 14 February 2006 - 03:51 AM.

[zookeeper]

Ok...I'm a little freaked out right now


...but I did read the whole thing

[EnigmaticBiker]

You see, those bits of paper are not quite necissary if one wanted to own a dangerous weapon, even a gun. It's quite simple to buy a gun from a guy in a van, usually a white van (don't know why). Not that I've done it or anything...

Hmmm, you mention medication, on a point of professional interest.

Which one(s)?

Do you ever get the feeling you're watched? followed? spied on secretively?

Just curious.