82 replies to this topic

[pyrotechnist]

I had a look at a few birds-eye view images of Wells' today and the place still seems to be standing the test of time :> though it seems building work is now commencing around the site for the proposed new housing estate. I ain't sure what the future of Wells' is but I do not think it will be a good one . I may be wrong but not far up Joyce Green Lane there seems to be another type of firework storage or explosives site. If you look on Google maps you will see some modern buildings separated with large blast wall type fences, maybe this is the modern Wells' site took over by Pyro Junkies.

Concept the next time you go is it ok if you take some pictures of the place? and any tools, signs or objects you find within it?

[concept]

The images on Google maps are 6-8 years old now, the biggest building at the front is burnt out and most of the roof is collapsed, as I said I only had a chance to explore a fraction of the site but no doubt I will be returning soon. I will take some pictures and up load them. There is a little machinery left, but it is outside and very rusty, there are no burnt out cars there anymore however the site is very overgrown. The building works that are shown in Google are completed I don't think the site is in danger at the moment. Surely a rich pyro (or a few less rich pyro's ) out there could buy the land and start up manufacture, just dreaming now

Thanks Doug

Edited by concept, 07 July 2008 - 06:25 PM.

[pyrotechnist]

The images on Google maps are 6-8 years old now, the biggest building at the front is burnt out and most of the roof is collapsed, as I said I only had a chance to explore a fraction of the site but no doubt I will be returning soon. I will take some pictures and up load them. There is a little machinery left, but it is outside and very rusty, there are no burnt out cars there anymore however the site is very overgrown. The building works that are shown in Google are completed I don't think the site is in danger at the moment. Surely a rich pyro (or a few less rich pyro's ) out there could buy the land and start up manufacture, just dreaming now

Thanks Doug

Thank you which side is the burnt out building on? keep me informed of how your visit goes:). Btw if you are interested I have a few images of the place that someone else took that I could send you if you want.

Edited by pyrotechnist, 07 July 2008 - 10:45 PM.

[Mortartube]

The Joyce Green Lane factory closed about 14 years ago. Wells went many years ago but Astra and Unwins pyrotechnics had dealings there both with manufacture and storage. Brian Issot from Moonlight fireworks manufactured things there on a small basis I believe right up until his death some years ago. I think it's licence ran out around 14 years ago. I have a copy of the special factory rules taken from one of the sheds.

I know that there was an immense explosion there in the early 1950's I believe when the river flooded and I assume soaked the drums of aluminium powder. I have heard tales of the windows across most of Dartford being blown in. Also tales of other firework companies helping Wells out so they had stock for the shops that season.

There is also the tale that when they were about to test maroons they contacted the nearby Joyce Green Hospital as they sometimes performed the delicate task of vasectomies and didn't want the surgeons jumping. Whether that is true or an urban myth, it's a damn good story.

Curiously my father was in Southover Bonfire Society in Lewes in the 1950's and they always bought their fireworks from Wells.

Edited by Mortartube, 08 July 2008 - 04:09 PM.

[spectrum]

Brian worked for Unwins and went on to set up Sky High based outside Faversham. He left that place to work as an inspector for the HSE but died shortly after joining

You are right about the explosion, the place flooded in the great gales in the 1950's, the factory backs onto the Thames at Long Reach and, like many other factories was built on marshy land. The water flooded the Magnesium Stores and a build up of hydgrogen ignited.

I worked for the Astra group and was sent up there a few times, there was an old chap there who was actually involved in the building of the place and the move down by Wells from London. He actually remembered moving some of the kit by horse and cart.

Astra became interested due to the involvement in high explosives - we were working on mortar b**bs at the time and the magazines at Dartford were beter suited to this given the distances available to us. In the end all the crap jobs were dumped there, we pressed C.S. grenades there rather than mess up the Sandwich factory.

I remember the place like it was yesterday, a living museam and an absolute treasure.

It was, as you rightly say, closed around 15 years back, my former colleagues from Astra were decontaminating the place around 1992. I picked up some of the chemicals and a set of scales which have long disappeared. The university of Greenwich acquired the place and actually retained the license for a while, I remember speaking to one of the staff there, in those days we were setting up Spectrum and were looking at renting space there - there were a few others as well.

[Mortartube]

I could have sworn that Brian traded as Moonlight Fireworks for a while. I only met him on a very few occasions.

I went there with Stuart Orr to buy chemicals and equipment when it all closed down and consequently to collect gunpowder on a few occasions. It really should have at least a few sheds preserved as a working museum maybe with people ramming inert substances to show what life was like.

Apparently it was only 3 or 4 years before Wells closed that they dumped all of their original Limelights (they started as limelight contractors for theatres and providing bunting etc), as well as the original setpiece frames of people like Queen Victoria etc.

I still have a little aluminium tube with a screw cap with respirator training CS pellets inside, somewhere from that site.

I can imagine smokes and CS canisters are the last thing anyone wants to do, what a mess!

While I am here Paul. Do you know Mark Dempsey from Viking? Is he still going. I haven't seen him for years. He was at Astra.

[pyrotechnist]

Have you got any pictures of the factory when it was in production? for some reason most of the windows within the production buildings have been removed and dumped in a buried magazine on the left side at the entrance. I wish it could be preserved because like most of our heritage it will be gone soon .

Spectrum do you know how the place was decontaminated?

[spectrum]

Have you got any pictures of the factory when it was in production? for some reason most of the windows within the production buildings have been removed and dumped in a buried magazine on the left side at the entrance. I wish it could be preserved because like most of our heritage it will be gone soon .

Spectrum do you know how the place was decontaminated?

Mostly it wasn't, that's why they spent so much money putting a fence around it!. The last time I officially went there there was still powder traces on the benches and live bits around.

I know the University were asking around for information on what went on and whereabouts on site. There was some work done investigating soil contamination, just inside the gate on the RHS I seem to recall.

I imagine the basis process would have involved simply ripping out whatever could be removed and burning it. When Astra vacated there was a frightening quantity of Flash powder there and it caused huge problems burning it off, in the end it was mixed with diesel and allowed to burn off slowly and gently.

[spectrum]

I could have sworn that Brian traded as Moonlight Fireworks for a while. I only met him on a very few occasions.

I went there with Stuart Orr to buy chemicals and equipment when it all closed down and consequently to collect gunpowder on a few occasions. It really should have at least a few sheds preserved as a working museum maybe with people ramming inert substances to show what life was like.

Apparently it was only 3 or 4 years before Wells closed that they dumped all of their original Limelights (they started as limelight contractors for theatres and providing bunting etc), as well as the original setpiece frames of people like Queen Victoria etc.

I still have a little aluminium tube with a screw cap with respirator training CS pellets inside, somewhere from that site.

I can imagine smokes and CS canisters are the last thing anyone wants to do, what a mess!

While I am here Paul. Do you know Mark Dempsey from Viking? Is he still going. I haven't seen him for years. He was at Astra.

Yes, I have heard about the limelights as well. I do know Mark Demspey, we were at Astra at the same time although he joined long before me and was made redundant during my first year there. I believe he is still going strong.

I think Moonlight Fireworks was a local company in Kent run by a guy called Hemmings. He also ran a cleaning contractors and had the contract to clean the offices and inert buildings at the Astra factory in Sandwich. I don't think they are gong any more - but I could be wrong.

[concept]

Interesting stuff, it's nice to hear from some one who actually has first hand experience of the site while it was in operation. I also noticed that all the huts had their windows removed and a few "contaminated area" signs, the place is holding up pretty well, considering it’s at the mercy of anyone who chooses to wander that way, not to mention the weather. My main question is could the factory ever be restarted again, I know a few amateurs (like me) making 100g batches of Bp isn't going to cut it, but if it was done then and Kimbolton do it now then why not?

Any thoughts Doug

[spectrum]

Interesting stuff, it's nice to hear from some one who actually has first hand experience of the site while it was in operation. I also noticed that all the huts had their windows removed and a few "contaminated area" signs, the place is holding up pretty well, considering it's at the mercy of anyone who chooses to wander that way, not to mention the weather. My main question is could the factory ever be restarted again, I know a few amateurs (like me) making 100g batches of Bp isn't going to cut it, but if it was done then and Kimbolton do it now then why not?

Any thoughts Doug

From memory Doug, following the collapse of the Astra Holdings Group (of which Unwins was a member) the official receiver sold the site on to the University of Greenwich because, I was told at the time, there was some pressure to revert the land to green belt status. Quite how that worked when the receivers job would have been to get the best price for such an asset is a mystery to me, but I recall as an employee of the group at the time that being clearly stated.

On that basis there would be no planning in place and that would be the first crunch, notwithstanding a presumption in favour made on the basis of previous activity.

Secondly, the place really is in bad shape. The remains of the buildings are okay for spectator purposes but would take an enormous amount of investment to return to working order. It would be easier to start from scratch. It goes in favour of the place that it is remote and the outside safety distances are all okay. It is a lovely place to work - you actually feel you are transported back to the 1950's walking down Joyce Green Lane.

I personally feel that the restoration of firework manufacture to the U.K. is not only viable but inevitable at some time in the not too distant future.

I have not only voiced this opinion but have demonstrated it by establishing my own factory - much to the amusement and occassional ridicule of the odd importer. I suspect that if the Chinese continue to increase prices as that now feel comfortable and secure in doing for much longer, my views will slowly be accepted even by the smart arses who ridiculed them when we first started out.

In summary, there is a future for firework manufacture, the biggest drawback is the technological damage caused by the break in continuity and the willingness of individuals wanting to take a chance.

We were approached last year by a French company specifically requesting a European made firework item in very substantial volumes but declined to quote simply because of the scale of the job.

It would be nice for a small group to try and visit the remains of the site before it is turned into a car park (which I believe is the ultimate aim)

[pyrotechnist]

Hi spectrum may I ask were is your firework factory located? to what I was told a while back via the council around that area is that the site is no longer owned by anyone but the council and at the moment no plans have been made to take the place down. But if the residents in the new homes they have built or near by companies say that they do not want a contaminated factory near them for safety reasons the place will be taken down and buried to rectify the contamination.

He said one way about saving it is to set up a comity with each member putting money towards getting the factory restored but never mentioned about having to buy the land so am not to sure if one would have to or not. Any ideas?

[spectrum]

Hi spectrum may I ask were is your firework factory located? to what I was told a while back via the council around that area is that the site is no longer owned by anyone but the council and at the moment no plans have been made to take the place down. But if the residents in the new homes they have built or near by companies say that they do not want a contaminated factory near them for safety reasons the place will be taken down and buried to rectify the contamination.

He said one way about saving it is to set up a comity with each member putting money towards getting the factory restored but never mentioned about having to buy the land so am not to sure if one would have to or not. Any ideas?

My place is in Lincolnshire.

The Joyce Green Factory is actually owned by the University of Greenwich. There are some new houses built at the end of Joyce Green lane but that's quite some distance.

I personally think that the place is a beautiful old reminder of times gone by but, unless you win the lottery and go mad, restoration is an impractical idea. I know this is a sad thing to say, but my advice would be to check the place out (without breaking the law) and savour the memory. The chances are you won't visit another place like it ever again.

[crystal palace fireworks]

My place is in Lincolnshire.

The Joyce Green Factory is actually owned by the University of Greenwich. There are some new houses built at the end of Joyce Green lane but that's quite some distance.

I personally think that the place is a beautiful old reminder of times gone by but, unless you win the lottery and go mad, restoration is an impractical idea. I know this is a sad thing to say, but my advice would be to check the place out (without breaking the law) and savour the memory. The chances are you won't visit another place like it ever again.

Hi Spectrum,

Yes, its a real shame that perhaps a full reconstruction of another fireworks factory in that area is probably a no go, but as you said in so many words........its beautifully time-warped......... a throw-back to the 1950`s or earlier (old vickers airfield/tram storage area etc)

Do you not think it might be worthwhile trying secure funding for the old fireworks site to perhaps reconstruct three or four of those huts for education purposes? (that wouldn`t cost that much) perhaps along the lines of a museum come pyro teaching workshop on certain days? (with public gallery to watch) or charcoal making with a planting of a few willow trees for future generations?.......and then perhaps have a bring-your-own-fireworks to let off in the evening type of thing?

I know Bexley council did get a £1.000.000 grant from the ODPM a few years ago for a variety of regeneration reasons for the area, perhaps we should get a petition together from this forum?

Hey, what was that TV program called with Griff Rhys Jones?.....was it `Restoration`?.........perhaps the heritage lottery fund can help?

I have emailed Bexley Councils planning office today for more info on the site, hopefully they will respond shortly.

Keith

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 10 July 2008 - 11:32 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

There is good TV programming to be made from a heritage reconstruction BUT is there any funding? Lots of lottery funded places are closing due to the lottery fund with holding money in favour of olympic type bids.

Do you, does anyone, have the life and cash to spend on a huge DIY project with little prospect for a return on anything, and a strong likelyhood that someone will complain that it "isn't safe"

There may be lots of decontamination to do from previous users. There certainly was when the royal gunopwder mills at waltham abbey was returned to housing