82 replies to this topic

[crystal palace fireworks]

Arthur,

If my memory serves me correctly,...according to the council,.........use for explosives has already been granted planning permission on the wells site!

Pyrotechnist,

I think your idea might be the best solution (just buy a bit of the plot) for letting off fireworks to begin with!,.......the only issue is permitted access to that plot of land at the back (will the UoG give us access through there land?)

Yes, I would love it to be our UKPS base in the south east.

Here is the latest email from the UoG ;-

Dear Mr Brock, thank you for your email.

I understand you have previously been in touch with the University's
Head of Estates Peter Fotheringham on this matter. I regret that
unless you are able to approach the university with a viable scheme,
suitably funded, there is little point in meeting to discuss this matter.
Should you be interested in purchasing the site you would need to
submit an offer in writing to Mr Fotheringham. Regards, Chris
Powner

I have asked Mr Powner for some info on the size of the total plot,.........hopefully he will come back to us!

[Arthur Brown]

You will need to consider having enough plot to have good safety distances 200mm shell needs 200m to the audience and more all round 2000kilos of 1.3 in store will need 80 metres minimum ALL round. Assume someone will want to put an old peoples' home right up to the property line of your plot, oh! and a children's nursery!

A bid for a brown land plot in the London conurbation must be in the order of a million pounds an acre.

[crystal palace fireworks]

I think my initial correspondence with the UoG estate management is not the right course at this stage of affairs,....perhaps I should try and correspond with a science lecturer or dean at the UoG next?

Below is the latest reply ;-

Dear Mr Brock, thank you for your email, I am afraid I do not feel it
would be possible to engage in any useful discussion unless you
have some more concrete proposals to put to the University. We do
not currently seek to let the site and as stated unless you are in a
position to make a considerable financial commitment there would
seem to me very little possibility that your current outline proposal
would be viable. Regards, Chris Powner



On 31 Mar 2009, at 15:32, CPF wrote:

From: CPF
Date sent: Tue, 31 Mar 2009 15:32:38 EDT
To:
Subject: Re: Enquiry

Dear Mr Powner,

Thank you for your reply,

Yes I believe I have engaged in previous email correspondence with
Mr
Fotheringham some while back regarding this subject, albet my
correspondence (email details) has long been lost due to the usual
computer glitches we all occasionally encounter from time to time.

We would like to explore possibilities with the university on many
issues regarding the joint education role of a fireworks course,.....
linked to perhaps
an existing UoG chemistry/physics kinetics subject at some future
date,........ when perhaps a more defined viable scheme has been
drawn-up by our society, but having said that, I would welcome
some
advice on who we could talk to at the UoG on the education aspect
first?

The UKPS would consider purchasing the site as an alternative
solution.

It would help if you could give us some information on the exact size
of the plot and its current land status (farmland? marshland? or
other?),........ for us to consider making you a sensible offer!

kind regards

Keith Brock

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 01 April 2009 - 03:13 PM.

[Richard H]

It is admirable that you chaps are enquiring about the site, but clearly it would be a huge undertaking to get anywhere. I am unsure how we would even start to pitch for funding on a project of this scale given the niche of fireworks as both a subject and in the science curriculum. I think to get funding, you would have to make a strong use case to show how the public at large or a significant section would benefit. To do that you would have to consider the proposed use of the site. A tricky one. Some sort of working heritage museum? To go down that route you would be talking full time staff and the costs soon start to snowball. Call me sceptical but would there even be consideration for funding of something like that today? It is interesting to see what they did with the powder mills at Waltham Abbey, but that is on a totally different scale, and clearly for them to get the considerable (millions?) funding that they did, they had to make it have widespread appeal as tourist attraction.

Admittedly I know little about this particular site or its condition.

[Arthur Brown]

IF the site still has planning permission for licensed manufacture, and assuming that the site meets current safety distances, then an approach to a commercial valuer in the area should determine the scale of the funding needed.

AS my GUESS £10M to buy the freehold £500,000 to fence and secure to HSE standard then £500,000 to rebuild some huts for working. Add some container storage, see little use of £11M funding spend, have no classification facility so no legal transport of product.

Have we a person competent to make a better professional guess - Chartered surveyor or architect - as a willing forum member?

[crystal palace fireworks]

Yes some good points Arthur,..........before we even attempt to weigh up the various options on what we can do with the site, we need to see if distances measure up.

Would the commitee like to purchase the plans?,.............I believe they can be bought on line at land registry, as arthur said,....what would a valuation cost? or can we judge that ourselves from when the UoG aquired the site via the info on the plans (purchase price and year bought), and make a best guestimate for the current market!

Richard;- Your right, it maybe an undertaking too far for such a small society like ours at this stage of our existance, but I think we should at least have a informal talk at our next get together and put forward our ideas or wishes about what we could or like do with the site,......even if its pipe dream.

Perhaps we could rent out part of the site to paint ballers for another income stream!

We could contact various charitable arts & science foundations for support ( I know some of these).

What about english heritage,........Im sure they would donate some funds for preservation of the site, they also offer funding to man places of interest.

We could rent out the site to schools or universites for open day projects on firework making,.........if the kids get interested in science through fireworks, then we sell this point to the authorities as an education value (remember the BBC program a few weeks back).

[Arthur Brown]

With the Olympics eating into ALL Government based funding streams, and possibly the Lottery. There is almost NIL chance that an appeal to arts or heritage sources would yield suitable amounts of money.
There is NO chance that business would want to sponsor the project as businesses are struggling to stay alive.

There is no fixed valuation on the plot - it's worth what they can get for it. They may be looking for millions but they may be willing to wait til a suitable offer comes up. Currently builders with a land portfolio are struggling because the land is now worth less than the loans secured on the plots, but in the long term land will always be valuable because the area is fixed and demand is increasing.

1/ In my personal opinion the UKPS company does not have the fundraising skills to find the money or the management skills to run a multi million pound investment and building project.

2/ There is NO certainty that the neighbouring properties would allow the premises to become an explosives factory again.

3/ Currently we have no revenue stream projected to service loans on the project, or insurance on the plot and it's activities.

A quick phone call or visit to a commercial surveyor in the area would get an unwritten valuation, maybe for the cost of a beer. However IF UoG paid money for the plot they will need to see a return on that, they are a long term establishment and can perhaps simply wait til the market conditions change and someone wants to pay silly money to put houses on there.

[crystal palace fireworks]

Why is this posting not showing up on the main topic board/menu?

Edited by crystal palace fireworks, 11 September 2009 - 06:21 AM.