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Ammonium Perchlorate Rockets, and Fuse Ignition...


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#1 Give_me_APCP

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 07:26 PM

Well, after thinking about going the standard route and using a fast burning composition, such as BP for a rocket propellant, I have decided to try and perfect a fuse ignition method for the propellant I have grown to love soo much...ammonium perchlorate. I'm new to the forum and I don't know just how in-depth some of us are with this propellant, so I'm making this long to fully elaborate the details for anyone curious. Bear with me please.

Typically, AP propellants are ignited from the front end, by an ignitor extending up the core of the propellant. When they are fuse lit from the rear or nozzle end, they typically don't build pressure at a quick enough rate due to the heat which has to rise up to the top to fully ignite all the propellant.

As you may know, ammonium perchlorate composite propellants have some of the highest Isp's (specific impulse) of any common solid propellants. It basically doubles the power of BP when comparing equal weights. Not to mention, a variety of flame colors is easily obtainable, my favorite being the blue-lavender yielded from CuO as a catalyst. Most of my amazement comes from the performance, though, which is why I have chose to try and perfect this in a firework design. I'm sure a few of you love those much higher flying rockets as well.

Anyways, I will explain a bit on this since some may be unfamiliar with AP's needs in a motor design. Some of you may be interested in experimenting with this stuff like me as well. First of all, AP propellant is typically run at pressures in the 400-700psi range, and as high as 1000+psi. This requires a slightly sturdier case material...I use 1/16" thickness phenolic tube. It can be run at lower pressures, but at the cost of efficiency. This is probably the most expensive downfall of it's use in a firework design that I can think of.

AP's operational Kn value, or the burning propellant surface area divided by the nozzle throat area, is typically in the range of 180-230, where a model rocket blackpowder motor has a Kn value much lower, around 25. This in part shows that AP reacts less to pressure changes under changing nozzle sizes, or much more forgiving per surface area than blackpowder. This can mainly be attributed to its lower burnrate, though. Due to this simple factor, this does not permit AP to typically be used as an endburning motor design, rather a motor with a core to achieve much more burning surface area. With that being said, comes it's problems in a firework design...it needs a reliable method of front-end ignition.

With the common fast-burning propellants commonly used, ignition is a simple matter...a fuse from the nozzle end ignites the propellant and it burns upward. With a design using a core all the way to the top, this can be much of a problem. I have tried it a few times, some tries work OK, some are complete failures. By failures, I mean the propellant lights, but since it is from the rear end it immediately shoots the fuse out and begins to burn with much too little pressure. Since only the rear of the grain is lit, pressure builds inside, but as gases are trying to escape the rear, the rest of the upper propellant may not be ignited quickly enough. This can look very neat as the rocket begins to slowly liftoff after 2-3 secs like a space shuttle, but for the most part it is unintended as well as dangerous. A rocket needs to leave with enough thrust so that it's path isn't hugely affected by wind/balance, and so that it gets accelerating quickly in the right direction.

Well enough talk about AP and how it works, let's discuss possible ignition methods in a firework design. This is where your pyrotechnic expertise can greatly help out in a possible design that works.

As stated, a sound AP ignition method would simply be a fuse from the front, if only somehow gases could not excape after ignition through this hole. Since this limits the idea out, a method is needed to get the heat quickly to the front of the motor. This could be accomplished a few ways which I can think of.

One method, may be a fuse which is inside of a sheath, or tube, so that the heat is contained through the core until it reaches the upper end. Since a nice quick burst of heat gets the motors going nicely, the fuse could be dipped in pyrogen at the (upper) ignition end. The problem which arises from this method however, is debris existing in the core post ignition, AKA the sheath. Any debris poses a nozzle clog possibility, and should be steered away from, unless it can be certain that it will freely exit the nozzle under pressure 99% of the time. Common electrical ignitors are very slim, and do not pose a clogging threat unless the motor is very long.

My second idea, is a method which to me seems more acceptable. A slower burning fuse is somehow attached to a hot burning fuse with a very fast burnrate. Just before the nozzle is reached, the much faster burning fuse ignites, and shoots up the core quick enough to ignite the entire core before being blown out. This too could use a pyrogen dip at the front for a ensured ignition of the grain. The fuse, being smaller than a fuse which is covered, should easily exit the nozzle without clogging issues after ignition.

This is all I have come up with so far with my experience in rocketry, and not much in pyrotechnics. I'm hoping the pyro experts out there can take these methods and possibly devise a solution which is more reliable. Or, at least methods of assembling the fuses in a reliable manner, as well as recommendations on the fuse which may be desired for this attempt.

Again I apologize for this threads extreme length, hopefully some of you are interested in this idea as much as I am and we can perfect something. :)

#2 adamw

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 09:36 PM

Commercial hand-held distress flares have a hollow cavity where by the impulse of the percussion primer in the handle is transferred to an ignitor pellet at the top of the device. You could use a similar idea to 'spray' a hot molten dross of composition from an initiator to a ignitor bead at the top of the motor, which then ignites it from the top (or use the energy of a gas to do the same).

Please see attached diagram. The labels:

a - ignitor pellet
b - motor casing
c - propellant grain
d - core
e - initiator
f - nozzle
g - nozzle cavity

I do not know if this method is used in commerical rocket products - but it is used, and works very well, in hand flares. I am aware that conventional methods of initiating solid fuel motors use an initiator directly at the top of the motor propellant grain core - so the 'bottom firing' method should work if sufficient energy is transferred up the length of the core to the ignitor pellet.
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#3 FrankRizzo

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Posted 14 July 2006 - 10:55 PM

It's as easy as slipping a piece of quickmatch up the core. Combined with nosing paper, this method gives normal BP rockets a bit more snort as well.

#4 Give_me_APCP

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 12:01 AM

Adamw, I appreciate the diagram. I am unfamiliar with this sort of ignition. How exactly is the upper pellet ignited...strictly via gas transfer?

I know large military composite rocket motors do use a starter grain, in the smaller AP motors it however isn't required. All that is needed is a small dose of heat at the top from something like pyrogen, then the hot gases escaping start the rest of the grain before complete pressurization.

As for Quickmatch, just what is this stuff?

I saw it on Skylighter's site, but that stuff looks much too thick. Could it be cut apart and used? I take it the nosing paper is for a thermal barrier to prevent accidental ignition, correct? The Quickmatch would mainly have to flash up the core, with a slower burning coat on its end to ensure ignition. AP will not light as quickly as BP.

Edited by Give_me_APCP, 15 July 2006 - 12:03 AM.


#5 FrankRizzo

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Posted 15 July 2006 - 05:41 PM

Quickmatch is just a few strands of black match (cotton string impregnated with black powder) covered with a thin paper jacket. When lit from one end, the flame front moves rapidly down the pipe and spits a heavy flame from the other end. By placing a piece of this fuse up inside the cavity, the top of the grain will be "blowtorched", with the rest of the fire being forced down and along the inside of the cavity, making for very effective ignition. The excess paper will be quickly spat out after ignition of the grain.

While the commercial product might have too large of a jacket, you can make whatever size you'd like at home very easily.

The nosing paper serves to increase confinement at the early ignition stage as well as insurance against accidental ignition.



As for Quickmatch, just what is this stuff?

I saw it on Skylighter's site, but that stuff looks much too thick. Could it be cut apart and used? I take it the nosing paper is for a thermal barrier to prevent accidental ignition, correct? The Quickmatch would mainly have to flash up the core, with a slower burning coat on its end to ensure ignition. AP will not light as quickly as BP.


Edited by FrankRizzo, 15 July 2006 - 05:42 PM.


#6 Give_me_APCP

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 12:49 AM

Ok, I am going to make some of this stuff asap. Looks to be perfect to do the trick.

And here I thought it was going to be some complicated method I was going to need to devise.

Can you possibly tell me where I can buy simply the black match from the web?

Thanks a lot for the advice.

#7 FrankRizzo

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 02:14 AM

Black match is considered 1.3G for transportation, so unfortunately you won't be able to find a company willing to ship it. If you have a local HPR club, you might find someone with some extra; it's used for igniting clusters.

Edited by FrankRizzo, 16 July 2006 - 02:16 AM.


#8 Arthur Brown

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Posted 16 July 2006 - 07:27 AM

I read that some pro rockets have star cored grain. Meaning the hole up the centre has a star shaped cross section. As solid propellants burn at the surface this means that by tailoring the star shape the surface area can increase or stay constant or decrease as the burn progresses. If the initial burn rate is too low then the rocket will sit there til some weight has been burned off.

As for front end ignition can you fit an electric igniter in the nose end bringing one wire down each side of the casing.
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#9 Give_me_APCP

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 02:57 AM

I read that some pro rockets have star cored grain. Meaning the hole up the centre has a star shaped cross section. As solid propellants burn at the surface this means that by tailoring the star shape the surface area can increase or stay constant or decrease as the burn progresses. If the initial burn rate is too low then the rocket will sit there til some weight has been burned off.

As for front end ignition can you fit an electric igniter in the nose end bringing one wire down each side of the casing.


This is true, there is a multitude of core configurations used to achieve the desired surface area in a rocket motor. I.E. Star, Bates (a standard centered hole in the grain, and typically stacked grains), C-slot, D-slot, X-core, finocyl, etc. The preferred grain design I have attempted in a firework design using AP propellant is the moonburner. A solid acrylic coring rod is used, but is offset to one side of the cylinder. This leaves a hole which, as it burns, progresses like the shape of the moon getting thinner and thinner (if viewed from the end), hence the name. It starts with a spike of thrust, which then decreases throughout the burn. It can be made to slightly degress from start, progress, then degress again if the grains are made long enough. But, none of these designs will lift a rocket correctly if it is not ignited from the front of the motor.

The motor is typically designed to have a minimal of 5:1 thrust to weight, as anything less may yield too slow a liftoff, and veer straight into the wind.

I have used head-end ignition in the firing of long motors to prevent ignitor clog, however this is a firework design and must be fuse-initiated.

I do have a HPR club I fly with, I will have to check at the next launch on black match availability.

Without starting a new thread, can anyone tell me where to find dowel rod a bit longer than standard 36"? Or where to find any cheap wood rod which could be used? Some of these motors are a bit long, and I would rather they be aerodynamically overstable than understable.

#10 FrankRizzo

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 05:41 AM

Ripping your own sticks from pipe 2x4's (scrap or new) is the cheapest way of doing things...it's what I do for my BP rockets.

#11 al93535

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Posted 17 July 2006 - 07:20 AM

Sorry post removed

Edited by al93535, 09 August 2006 - 06:05 PM.

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#12 Give_me_APCP

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 11:17 PM

...Perhaps 325 mesh flake bright Al, mixed with some percent of something else like charcoal dust, or red gum.

What fuel are you using Give me apcp?


For anyone interested, here is a basic AP formula for a yellow/orange flame, moderate burnrate, little smoke:

AP 200 micron 79.8%
Lampblack 0.2%
PBAN 16.4%
DER-331 epoxy curative 3.6%

A formula with a bit more oomph and blue/purple flame would look like this:

AP 200 mic 79%
Alum. -400 Mesh Atomized 2%
Copper Oxide 1%
R45/Curative/Plasticizer 18%

Note that R45 is better suited to metals in propellant vs PBAN. In fact, Mg in PBAN will cure it instantly, and is a no no. I actually recommend going the R45 route if trying AP, more versatility. Try Rocketmotorparts.com if interested in the stuff I personally use (it is production-grade). Runs about $55 for startup cost, minus your solids. Remember to get the CAO-5 antioxidant if storing propellant for extended time periods.

This stuff does burn hot, and has burnt through thick kraft paper tube in weak areas. I recommend a complete liner to protect the case material during the burn.

I pack 24mm (model rocket mount) tubes with propellant, and cut them into the grains. These fit into other 1" ID tubes perfectly. If you experience case burn-through, you may want to use these tubes for a liner, and coupler tube inside them for the grains.

Use a coring rod to save propellant, but pull it out before a complete cure or it may be a tough time getting it out. Always make sure your core diameter is larger than your nozzle throat, or erosive burning will occur (likely a boom).

Edited by Give_me_APCP, 18 July 2006 - 11:33 PM.





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