24 replies to this topic

[adam]

Hi, just wondering if there is a quick and easy way to remove the fire depressant in weed killer (sodium chlorate). Thanks in advance for your help.

[parabolic]

you can roughly remove most of the fire depressant 'which i think is sodium chloride', by using a common house hold sieve. most of the sodium chlorate crystals are much bigger then the salts and so the firedepressant falls through. what remains in the sieve is sodium cholrate, you might still have a small amount of fire depressant in there too,,, you may have to seperate that by another means?

I must tell you that sodium cholorate is extremely poisonous, and should not be mixed with other chemicals such as sulphur, which make them unstable and very sensitive ,,
what are you intending to do with it?

Para

[Asteroid]

More than likely, whatever you're using it for, it'll be easier safer and possibly cheaper to use potassium nitrate. There are many dangerousd and illegal appliances for sodium chlorate, and many of these (can) give the majority of pyro's a bad name

[Rhodri]

Don't even bother thinking of utilising this chemical in pyro - it has no use here!

[BigBang]

Adam might be a magician wishing to make flash paper! Not strictly speaking pyro, but a legitimate use I used to do this for a magician pal of mine.

Ive tried to separate the chloride from the chlorate, but it doesnt work very well, best to get the pure stuff.

But i agree, not to used in pyro

Edited by BigBang, 06 November 2006 - 07:59 PM.

[Andrew]

Don't even bother thinking of utilising this chemical in pyro - it has no use here!

There are some very advanced uses, but Rhodri is spot on, there really is no real use for it. For info, the fire retardant in weed killers is usually sodium tetraborate, or borax to the lay person. It has a similar solubility to sodium chlorate so recrystallisation is not actually that effective.

Once again, It really has no safe use!

[adam]

Wow . Poisonous and dangerous, thanks for the concern. To be ohnest i was going to use it for a small out door bang effect, like a cheap fire cracker. My grand dad told me that it would work fine with out the fire depressent as he bought it on its own as a child. I might aswell use it to kill weeds with now.

What is the next best alternative then, i have seen that lots of people on here use KNO3 for fire works etc. What is this and could I use it safely?

Chears Adam

Edited by adam, 06 November 2006 - 08:40 PM.

[pyromaniac303]

Wow . Poisonous and dangerous, thanks for the concern. To be ohnest i was going to use it for a small out door bang effect, like a cheap fire cracker. My grand dad told me that it would work fine with out the fire depressent as he bought it on its own as a child. I might aswell use it to kill weeds with now.

What is the next best alternative then, i have seen that lots of people on here use KNO3 for fire works etc. What is this and could I use it safely?

Chears Adam

If you are wanting to get started in pyro properly then youll need to first read up on BP making, and know what the function of each chemical is in there, then when you know quite a bit about it you can make a small batch and test it.

I wouldn't start making salutes straight away, your best to make small fountains with iron or aluminium powder as they are relatively safe and cheap/easy to make.

Do a few searches, there are plenty of pages already for people to learn the basics

Sodium chlorate is a very powerful oxidiser, it is also friction and shock sensitive when mixed with most fuels (same precautions as potassium chlorate) and to make it even more off-putting, it is very hygroscopic. A small pile left in a shed over night will become a puddle the next day, and the liquid produced corrodes metals quite rapidly.

Just avoid it entirely, unless you plan to use it for making potassium chlorate.

Edited by pyromaniac303, 06 November 2006 - 09:50 PM.

[BigBang]

Well, there may be other ways to make flash paper, but ive been doing it with sodium chlorate for years, and it works great!

[jcow]

Using sodium chlorate for potassium chlorate synthesis is probably the only justified pyro use.

[adam]

Thank you for your help. Ill check out the other posts.

adam

Edited by adam, 07 November 2006 - 10:20 AM.

[cooperman435]

Ill probably get burnt for this but..........................



the fire depressant is (in my experience) just as soluble as the sodium chlorate but not as hydrascopic so...



If you add a large amount of the mixture to water gradually at first it all disolves then as more and more is added crystals refuse to dissolve. Keep adding the mixture untill a large amount of the crystals are refusing to dissolve.

Importaintly some of the crystals that will sit at the bottom of the container will be as large as the ones you first added.

Keep shaking the container regulally making sure it doesnt get warmer as this will affect the solubility of the different chemicals. (I work at room temp)

Eventually there will be a lot of very fine white crystals in the water and an amount of seemingly untouched crystals at the bottom of the container (I use a pop bottle so its watertight and clear to see the contents)

let the crystals settle and carefully pour off the liquid through a coffee filter and evaporate the water off.



This works as the sodium chlorate is more hydroscopic than the dampener so it will steal the H2O from it making it recrystalise. but only when there is excess sodium chlorate in the container. Ie the untouched crystals in the base of the mix.


Pthis is intended as a "HOW TO" not a "GO DO IT"

be good

[Squib]

Ill probably get burnt for this but..........................
the fire depressant is (in my experience) just as soluble as the sodium chlorate but not as hydrascopic so...
If you add a large amount of the mixture to water gradually at first it all disolves then as more and more is added crystals refuse to dissolve. Keep adding the mixture untill a large amount of the crystals are refusing to dissolve.

Importaintly some of the crystals that will sit at the bottom of the container will be as large as the ones you first added.

Keep shaking the container regulally making sure it doesnt get warmer as this will affect the solubility of the different chemicals. (I work at room temp)

Eventually there will be a lot of very fine white crystals in the water and an amount of seemingly untouched crystals at the bottom of the container (I use a pop bottle so its watertight and clear to see the contents)

let the crystals settle and carefully pour off the liquid through a coffee filter and evaporate the water off.
This works as the sodium chlorate is more hydroscopic than the dampener so it will steal the H2O from it making it recrystalise. but only when there is excess sodium chlorate in the container. Ie the untouched crystals in the base of the mix.
Pthis is intended as a "HOW TO" not a "GO DO IT"

be good

Does this work? using the hygroscopic nature of a salt to keep it in solution when
a salt of similar solubility crystalises out. It sounds like it should! If it does I might try
it just to see it in action. (I can always weed the paths with the result as its too
much trouble to dry and keep dry)

If you want to speed up the burning of Sodium Chlorate soaked paper add five percent
Pottassium Fericyanide to the solution.

[hangusman]

if you get

if you get a household sieve with a high mesh. You can seperate them reasonably well. The larger crystals are sodium chlorate.