28 replies to this topic

[The Messiah]

Is it illegal to make thermite in the UK?

[adamw]

Is it a pyrotechnic compositon? Yes. Is it illegal to make any quantity of pyrotechnic composition? Yes

But...

If you make a gram or less (not much point I know), then according to the law, as long as its for personal use, and you dont sell any then its OK, as long as you dont make it into a functional 'device'. Ie lighting the little gram you've made in a pile is OK.

So there you go... interpret it as you want.

[phildunford]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the relevent document does not state an exact amount. In the notes for setting up an explosive store (which I think is on this website somewhere) I think the words 'several ounces' are used but certainly it is very clear that making any 'functional device' is illegal...

[BOBO]

I found this:

PART I.-LAW RELATING TO GUNPOWDER

General Law as to Manufacture and Keeping of Gunpowder

4. The manufacture of gunpowder shall not, nor shall any process of such manufacture, be carried on except at a factory for gunpowder either lawfully existing or licensed for the same under this Act.
Provided that nothing in this section shall apply to the making of a small quantity of gunpowder for the purpose of chemical experiment and not for practical use or sale.If any person manufactures gunpowder or carries on any process of such manufacture at any place at which he is not allowed by this section so to do, he shall be deemed to manufacture gunpowder at an unauthorised place.

Here:http://www.geocities.com/jpadfield13/exploact.html

So what the hell! Can we or can we not make gunpowder?!

[zanes]

thats UK law for you. Vague, but i have no idea why it is so.
Seems to me that it says making a bit of gunpowder (ounces) is ok, but then says it is not! *sighs*

[The Messiah]

thanks for ur help everyone

[crazyjim]

Hi all,

This is my first post, and having checked out the search option, I found the topic already started.

As a relative newcommer, I thought to start on some compositions with a fairly high activation energy, so as not to loose any fingers right away. So I have some Aluminium fine powder, 200 mesh and some LR grade Fe2O3, and some LR grade KMn03. ( I have some 50% Glycerine solution, but this has not worked as an initiator with the KMn03)

With the Thermite prepared Al:Fe203 (1:3) this stuff is really hard to light. There must be some sort of trick, but the best I have so far is to use a First Fire mix of KN03, Al and S (3:5:2), which I can start about 30% of the time with a KMn03 and Antifreeze initiation. (mainy due to the lack of glycerol). I do not wish to start making random compositions at this stage as an initiator, so wanted to ask a nice safe composition that will reliably get the thermite going, as it is a very neat effect to see the liquid iron pour out the bottom of the flower pot. (Actually it's more of a drip) . I've also tried fountain mix (Kno3, Fe, Charcoal, S, 12:5:2:2) and this worked one time, very pretty. Although I felt somewhat nervous shaking iron powder with a BP style mix.

Any one got a reliable method?
-Jim

[Pazza]

if you can get your hands on some magnesium ribbon then you can use it to light the thermite

[lord_dranack]

You can get glycerol at Boots. They sell it in 250ml bottles for use a a laxitive, and I think its pretty much pure. Mine worked fine to ignite with KMnO4

[BigG]

Hi all,

This is my first post, and having checked out the search option, I found the topic already started.

As a relative newcommer, I thought to start on some compositions with a fairly high activation energy, so as not to loose any fingers right away. So I have some Aluminium fine powder, 200 mesh and some LR grade Fe2O3, and some LR grade KMn03. ( I have some 50% Glycerine solution, but this has not worked as an initiator with the KMn03)

With the Thermite prepared Al:Fe203 (1:3) this stuff is really hard to light. There must be some sort of trick, but the best I have so far is to use a First Fire mix of KN03, Al and S (3:5:2), which I can start about 30% of the time with a KMn03 and Antifreeze initiation. (mainy due to the lack of glycerol). I do not wish to start making random compositions at this stage as an initiator, so wanted to ask a nice safe composition that will reliably get the thermite going, as it is a very neat effect to see the liquid iron pour out the bottom of the flower pot. (Actually it's more of a drip) . I've also tried fountain mix (Kno3, Fe, Charcoal, S, 12:5:2:2) and this worked one time, very pretty. Although I felt somewhat nervous shaking iron powder with a BP style mix.

Any one got a reliable method?
-Jim

Mister Jim,

I failed to understand what you are using the Fountain Mix for. To ignite Thermite?!?! That is a very strange option. The object of thermite is to ignite other mixtures, and not the other way around. Some fuses do require “starter fire” but you can use simple BP for that….

As for the note about mixing iron and BP type composition. There is no problem with that – as long as you mix using diapering or screen, and not by ball milling.

BigG

[crazyjim]

Hi all,

I decided not to use magnesium ribbon because it was ?16 a lot, and KMnO4 was only ?3.90 for 500g ( and I thought maybe it would come in handy ? but I can't see any other compositons that use it. )

Ah, the chemists for the Glycerol eh? I will definately go there, see what they have, many thanks for the tip.

Yes, the fountain mix, well, I had some left over from my very first fountain, so I put it on the thermite (i had no sulphur left). I did try making some first fire mix with just KNO3 and Al, but it would not ignite from KMnO4 and ethane-1,2-diol , so more sulphur on order. As an aside, I lit some thermite using a mini blow torch (actually, my handy assistant did it), it took about five minutes of constant heat, until the entire surface was glowing yellow-ish (1800 Celcius?) I don't recommend trying this, as the thermite burns very quickly indeed, almost flash like, and was just as well we only had 20g of it, it shattered the inner flower pot.

I did see mention of a members area for useful information, but have not been able to find it. Would this explain what a diapering screen is?

I Have Rev. Lancaster's book on order from the USA, so perhaps this will answer my questions, I hope it arrives before 5/11.

-jim

[BigG]

I did see mention of a members area for useful information, but have not been able to find it. Would this explain what a diapering screen is?


-jim

Diapering or Screen…

Screen means using a metal mesh (of none sparking metal) to mix the ingredients. Just place all on the mesh and shake the screen until all the ingredients go through. This system has the advantage of breaking chunks into fine powder in the process. Repeat few times to mix fully.

Diapering is placing the ingredients on a sheet of paper and lifting every time a different corner so the materials roll onto each other. It’s time-consuming method, but offer the least friction and is used for sensitive compositions such as flash.

I must say – you seem to be moving in the wrong pyro direction. If you just completed your first fountain then try a wheel. The chemicals that you use have very little to do with most amateurs.

BigG

[crazyjim]

BigG,

Thanks for the reply. I managed to get some glycerine from the local chemists, 95p for 50ml. As for the wrong direction, I don't want to start off making anything too unstable, at least not until I can find a source of decent fuse, all my pyro stuff at the moment is being initiated with KMnO4 and antifreeze (soon to be glycerol), this is nice as it gives you a few seconds to rereat.

It would be nice to get some proper fuse, but so far I can't find a supplier. l will no doubt end up making some fuse, there are quite a few sites out there for that. I like the idea of mixing up a paste with RTV silicone and just piping out some long sausages, but I guess that is another thread...

-jim

[BigG]

Crazy - there are plenty of posts on Black match, which is a good fuse, reliable, and give you plenty of time to get away. Do that next.

BigG

[crazyjim]

Hmmm, Tried the KMn04 and glycerine, and it is only marginally more exciting than using antifreeze, and still did not ignite the thermite.

I calculated the mass ratios of KMno4 to C3H5(OH)3 as close to 6:1 so used 6g KMnO4 to 1g Glycerine, into 43g of thermite mixture...nice sparks, but no thermite reaction. The residue of the KMnO4 and glycerine looked okay, in that it was neither wet from excess glycerine, or had any KMnO4....I scraped it off, and put 12g KMnO4 and put 2g of glycerine on that - bigger sparks, and flames, but again no thermite reaction.

I shall try some black match when my sulphur arrives, is this what is referred to as cocoa style BP?

-Jim