51 replies to this topic

[Resix]

Ya, you have to work around and find the uncoated foil. I have the best luck with the generic store brands from the dollar stores here in the US. And yes, it is much easier to just purchase the Al powder, but, at the time, I was under 18, and couldn't purchase it. Now, I just buy my Al via Ebay, but i still use this just because I enjoy doing it.

Anyway, I think they coat the foil with some sort of wax or maybe silicone product. If you use a expensive brand foil, you will get a thickened HCl mixture. If you don't want to use foil, you don't have to. Any form of Al will work. Just go to a scrap yard, and ask the guy any shavings or what ever and use them. Foil is nice because I can grab it when I go to the store for the Muriatic acid. I tried to find the MSDS sheet on the foil, but the company was giving me the go around when I asked for it, so i cannot say for sure what that coating is.

The yield isn't much, but you can do it without much trouble. How I do it is i have a a 55 gal shipping container cut in so that the bottom and top (the sealed sides) are about 5 inches high, and I'll put 5 mason jars in each one, and then do them all at once in the morning, and let them react all day and at night i just toss in about 18 inches of Mg ribbon in each and go to sleep. In the morning, i have almost an entire Al foil roll worth of Al powder.

[clash-bang]

To powder Al foil, the best way is to do a replacement reaction. This also works to powder Mg, but I'll get to that after.

Summary:
2Al(s) + 6HCl(aq) => 3H2(g) + 2AlCl3(aq)
3Mg(s) + 2AlCl3(aq) => 3MgCl2(aq) +2Al(s)
Once Mg is added, the Al will float on top. If ribbon was used, it can easly be separated from the powder floating on top.

As you can see, H2 gas will be produced, so you will want proper ventilation when doing this.

Application

Materials:
Gloves
Large Glass container
1 or more Smaller glass containers
Coffee filter
Chemicals:
H2O (Ice and liquid)
NaCl
HCl (Muriatic acid)
Al (foil)
Reducer (Mg Ribbon)
Optional:
NaOH
K (pure solid)

Process:
Put on GLOVES!
Place your smaller glass containers into the large one.
Fill the smaller glass containers with HCl (fill about 2 inchs or so)
Pour ice around the containers
Add some water and NaCl to the ice to create a ice bath.
Add Al foil to the HCl untill absorption stops, then remove excess. (H2 will be produced during this time, along with heat)
Add Reducer (Mg Ribbon works superb, and allows one to collect powdered Mg if proper reduces are also present.)
Pour solution into a coffee filter, and wash a few times with water (I do once with a NaOH, then water 3 times)

I am not sure the mesh on this powder, because I've never screened it, but it is fine. It works well for thermite.

From here, you have many possibilities. If you used Mg, you can now add Potassium metal to this, to get KCl3, which can then be used in a Perchlorate cell to make KClO4, and at the same time, cause Mg powder to form.
But - DO NOT do this without the ice bath. I did that for my fist time, and the glass cracked, and hot HCl poured on my shoes and ruined the grass...

Anyway, this can be used to powder any of the following reducers except Li, because you would need a stronger reducer than that, and I don't know of any others. (They may, and probably do exist, but my chemistry knowledge is limited to high school chem + experiments.)

Lithium (strongest)-> Potassium-> Barium-> Strontium-> Calcium-> Sodium-> Magnesium-> Beryllium-> Aluminum-> Manganese-> Vanadium-> Chromium

On a side note, thank you guys for all the posts you have contributed. I read this forum 2-3 times a day, and I figured my first post should give something back to the community.

Ok. i am reasonably new to pyro and i dont know many sites wher to get chemicals from but can someone tell me where to get Muriatic acid. I heard it is usefull for making hydrogen when mixed with zinc.
Many thanks

[Resix]

Hardware stores, it is used to strip/prime concrete floors. It is usually sold by the gallon, and is around 30ish%.
You can generate hydrogen gas using Al too, so you need to be careful or you might cause a fire.

[Andrew]

There are plenty of lab suppliers that you can get it from, for about £3/litre for conc HCl

[littlejohny]

I have never found Aluminium powder anywhere in Australia.

I'd like to here more about making it for yourself techniques. I've tried with the angle grinder method which doesn't really work, I don't have the money to buy a coffee grinder or blender... I may try using a belt sander with a 320grit belt on an Aluminium plate and see how that works. Resix's solution looks interesting now i have to get Mg... even though you can do alot with only Kno3, S, C, it gets a bit boring

[marble]

What mesh you looking for?

I can hook you up with some 200 mesh and some 5 micron Indian flake, both of which are on ebay.

Edited by marble, 10 October 2007 - 01:47 PM.

[MDH]

And are both willing to ship internationally?

[icarus]

just bought really good low price aluminium powder from grp resin supplier also picked up half a kg of what he called tin bronze powder very fine dust iron powder so cheap that clarkes fountain is on build list anyone any ideas for the tin/bronze powder ??????

[marble]

And are both willing to ship internationally?

flake yes
200 mesh no

[MDH]

I'm interested.

[marble]

http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem

Says 600 mesh but performs a bit better than my Eckart 5413 - and nobody makes 600mesh dark flake

Edited by marble, 11 October 2007 - 04:07 AM.

[littlejohny]

The link doesn't seem to be working?

[marble]

http://cgi.ebay.com/...ME:B:EF:US:1123

Edited by marble, 11 October 2007 - 12:50 PM.

[MDH]

He only ships to the united states.

Edited by MDH, 12 October 2007 - 07:15 AM.

[rocket]

Look more closely and you’ll see

"I can ship Internationally but please check with me first about shipping rates"