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#16 fishy1

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Posted 26 June 2007 - 09:36 PM

Cheerz, I was getting a little worried myself for a bit!

as far as I can tell, when Carbon burns it emits an Orange color into the spectral band, and That`s what seems to drown out the Green from the Barium, BaCO3 isn`t all that Basic either so perhaps the Hydroxide of it may do a better job??? again, that`s another one up for experimentation.

I Have seen for sale a Blue flash paper and have no idea HOW they could make that work! I wouldn`t mind owning a little and analysing it in the Lab :)
actually I think I`de probably use most of it in pure amazement and end up with very little to test, but hey, that`s what`s pyro`s about :)


My best guess for "blue" flash paper would be neutralising it with potassium carbonate or other potassium salt. I suppose it could also be dusted with a blue star comp.

#17 Creepin_pyro

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 09:16 AM

Blue flash now theres something I want to try in my Beraq, I dont want to be using Potassium chlorate or Paris Green though! If you any ideas let me know. I have some copper oxychloride now :rolleyes:


When granulated, certain AP blue compositions will make a very good blue flash.

YT2095 - are you sure the blue flash paper actually burnt blue and wasn't just blue in colour? I'd be interested to hear where it's available from.

#18 YT2095

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Posted 27 June 2007 - 10:04 AM

turns out it`s a Product name that`s somewhat misleading :(

http://www.nothingup...products_id=235

it`s only the paper itself that`s colored, how Miserable is that :(

sorry each.
"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom" - Death

#19 paul 1

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 12:21 PM

I`ve had a search on here and nothing quite hits the mark for a topic to post this, but the SFX sub-fora is ideal, this is a post taken from another site (we can do SOME pyro stuff there) that I`m a member of, I think it belongs Here with You more than it does there.
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you`ve seen Magicians use this stuff on stage etc... it looks like a sudden bright yellow Flash often from their hands during certain tricks, you Can buy this paper but it`s Very expensive and you only get a small amount.

for this experiment you`ll need a flask or beaker with a lid.
50ml of 98% sulphuric acid.
50ml of 70% Nitric acid.
several sheets of 2 ply toilet paper.
a pyrex casserole dish with lid.
a glass stir rod.
a good 50g of Sodium Carbonate (washing soda).
either a bucket of water or access to fresh running water.
the obvious safety goggles, apron/lab coat, gloves.

in the flask put your 50ml of nitric acid, then add the sulphuric acid gently.
it Will get warm! that`s normal, just allow it to cool to room temp with its lid on.

take 6 sheets of 2 ply toilet paper separated as individual sheets, make 2 piles of 3 sheets.
in the glass casserole dish pour a third of you acid into the bottom, then lay one pile of the sheets onto it, then pour another third of the acid mix ontop of that and then add the next pile of sheets.
pour the remaining acid mix ontop of that.
using the glass rod carefully make sure all the sheets are soaked in this mix, being carefull not to rip the paper, and then put the lid ontop of it all.
this proccess will make much acid vapor seen as a white "smoke" so use a fume hood or do this outside!

you can leave your sheets now for 10 to 15 mins, leaving it longer doesn`t improve the effect at all and there no gain to be had doing so.

your paper will have changes color somewhat by now and taken on an almost Plastic type texture, remove the lid and submerse the whole dish under water (in your sink or bucket), stir very gently and then lift the sheets out with the glass rod, don`t worry if they all seem to be stuck together, that`s perfectly normal!.
wash your casserole dish out with plain water, then put your sheets back in it along with the Sodium carbonate then add enough water to dissolve the sodium carbonate and cover the sheets.
Fizzing will be seen as the remaining acid is being neutralised.
at this stage with gloves on it will be possible to separate each individual sheet, being careful not to tear them as they are quite brittle at this point, leave then in the carbonate to soak until all fizzing has stopped. the paper and liquid will take on a darker color, (yellowish).

then take them out 1 as a time and wash then under fresh running water and pat dry with a towel.

leave them to dry in a warm place, you`ll notice that when they`re 100% dry they seem to get much softer and not as brittle, it`s even possible with care to split the double ply in each sheet making 12 thin sheets.

store these in a zip-lock plastic bag, and only take one sheet out at a time, don`t light any near the entire pile!

for lighting take hold of a sheet by a corner, use a lighter or a Cigarette to ignite the opposing corner and let go, it`ll have vanish long before it`s hit the floor! and the brightness is incredible!
it burns that fast that a small piece gently crumpled up can be lit on the palm of the hand with no burning or ash or even smoke (although do some tests before trying this!).

for the more Adventurous Chemist, you can use an equal mix of Strontium and Potassium carbonate as the neutralising base and get a Red color flash from the paper too :)
barium works also, but a White rather than a green seems to be the outcome.

do NOT try and store this paper for more than needed, this paper takes such a short space of time to make, that Storing it should never be an issue anyway.

Enjoy, but Play Safe!

http://yt2095.net/Flash.avi

a quick vid of the effect.






Good stuff.

My old science teacher conducted the same experiment in class and it always went down well. I see nothing wrong with this providing that safety is observed with the highly corrosive acids used (which you wisely pointed out).

With the acids used I would doubt that the product exceeded 11.9% Nitrogen and is probably lower. This is nitrocellulose preparation but the product is a propellant at this % of N. Most modern gun and rocket propellants use a similar product.

You clearly have a well equipped laboratory and are having much fun! Have you tried using a purer grade of cotton/cellulose?

Paul

#20 YT2095

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Posted 12 July 2007 - 12:48 PM

Thanks :)

yes I have taken a small amount of this and dissolved it in Acetone, then poured the clear liquid off into a watch glass and let it evaporate to leave a small thin sheet of Collodion, so I`ve purified in That respect.
although I`ve not tried to ignite any as I just keep it as a sample of one of the 1`st ever man made plastics, remarkably it is almost exactly like ordinary plastic too, and does indeed lend itself towards photographic film in way of material properties :)
although IIRC I think it`s been replaced now by Cellulose Acetate rather than the Nitrate.
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#21 dave

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 07:09 PM

Thanks :)

yes I have taken a small amount of this and dissolved it in Acetone, then poured the clear liquid off into a watch glass and let it evaporate to leave a small thin sheet of Collodion, so I`ve purified in That respect.
although I`ve not tried to ignite any as I just keep it as a sample of one of the 1`st ever man made plastics, remarkably it is almost exactly like ordinary plastic too, and does indeed lend itself towards photographic film in way of material properties :)
although IIRC I think it`s been replaced now by Cellulose Acetate rather than the Nitrate.


i've always found it convenient just to buy it....less hassle and i would hope a more stable product.
Where do you get your acids from ?

#22 YT2095

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Posted 01 August 2007 - 07:23 PM

those particular acids I used to make that flash paper were from Lab Chemicals International LTD.
"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom" - Death

#23 redcone

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 12:38 PM

those particular acids I used to make that flash paper were from Lab Chemicals International LTD.



Which was one of the trading names of kno3.com who were busted earlier this year for supplying drug labs in the US!



Regards,
Simon.

#24 YT2095

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:01 PM

well that was silly of them wasn`t it!

anyway, that`s where I got it from nearly 2 years ago.
"In a world full of wonders mankind has managed to invent boredom" - Death

#25 marble

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Posted 02 August 2007 - 01:06 PM

Which was one of the trading names of kno3.com who were busted earlier this year for supplying drug labs in the US!
Regards,
Simon.



That was a byproduct of them selling hard to find chemicals and the fact they didn't care what they sold to who. I think America is playing world cop again and is trying to take them to court (even though they reside in the UK).

Shame as they sold some great things even if they did violate 50 shipping laws in the process

http://web.archive.o...o3.com/home.asp

Edited by marble, 02 August 2007 - 01:11 PM.


#26 treefingers

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Posted 06 July 2008 - 08:56 PM

I had a go at nitrating some cotton wool today with a 3:2 mix of Sulphuric acid and Ammonium nitrate. As expected it was poor compared to using nitric acid but the NC burned faster than expected.

http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=_LlGgV1HTqw

Anyone else have any experience with using nitrates to make nitrocellulose?
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