30 replies to this topic

[hashashan]

Hey guys, does anyone know how to make a bromine donor , other then CBr4?

[Bonny]

Hey guys, does anyone know how to make a bromine donor , other then CBr4?

Bromine is used in hot tubs/spas in the same manner as chlorine to control bacteria or algea growth. It can be bought as small pucks I think. Not sure what else they contain though.

[YT2095]

you can buy KBr at photography shops also, it`s quite pure also.
do you have any particular compound in mind?

Liquid Bromine is quite easy to make from this, although you will need to take several safety precautions when handling it, primarily Don`t breathe it or get any of it on your skin or eyes!

[hashashan]

I'm working to make good colored blues using bromine instead of chlorine.
I thought to use : KBrO3, CuBr, Lactose and a bromine donor. I can make some CBr4 but i dont have enough bromine and it is a pain in the ass to produce it in large quantities. So I am looking for alternatives. I already tried to brominate Iditol and shellac, but i didnt try those yet.
So as i was saying i need something like PVC but with bromine instead of chlorine. So neither KBr nor Br2(of course) wont do the trick

[YT2095]

you do realise that CuBr when Ionised gives Green light and not blue?
and also that Bromates are Much more sensitive than Chlorates too.

[MMMMMM Pyro]

In addition KBrO3 is Toxic and a possible carcinogen.
Bromine and its compounds are not particularly great...

Regards,

Mike

[MDH]

I believe it was documented that some of the best blues are produced with flouride compounds.

Am I correct?

[YT2095]

I have heard similar also (don`t ask me where it was ages ago), but I would be even more careful with them, those WILL kill you! and don`t take too long to do it either and in a rather Nasty manner!

for God`s sake Please be VERY careful and do all your homework before even Trying to do anything with Fluorine / Fluorides, it really isn`t something amateurs should mess with, it`s insanely toxic!

please trust me on this one!

[MDH]

I know that. This is why swallowing toothpaste, with very low concentrations of flouride, is actually extremely bad for you .

I tend to stay away from most chemicals that I know will kill me and I recommend the same.

I am not sure how bromine would do as a colour saturator but so far I have not heard anything about it.

If he is making a reference to bromates, then as far as I know they have only been used in small experiments and not really applied in pyrotechnics because like chlorates, they react quickly to most acids.

[hashashan]

YT2095 : Well about the green you are wrong. Very wrong. I have tried CuBr as a blue coloring agent and it does great. I used Bromate + CuBr + Sugar.
however the temperature here is too high and the blue is somewhat washed out. The Bromate + CuBr + S is good but it is somewhat suicidal. the lactose should solve that problem and the bromine donor should do miracles on it.

The sensitivity issue is also known, so is the toxicity. You know that sodium nitrate is also a possible carcinogen ... those possible stuff tend to be overtaken . If you don't eat it daily u'll be just fine.


MDH :"If he is making a reference to bromates, then as far as I know they have only been used in small experiments and not really applied in pyrotechnics because like chlorates, they react quickly to most acids." you know that CuCl also isnt used in pyrotechnics but CuO that is a worse coloring agent is used ... you know why? price .. it is way cheaper and easier to handle in massive amounts. Chlorate isnt used due to safety in mass production .. and perbromate .. well how can i say it gently .. costs millions. so...

Fluorine. never heard of it being a good coloring agent ... well i guess no one lived to tell . Not going to use it and also it is not very practical because I dont know any good fluorine based oxidisier

[Mumbles]

If you want to get very picky, both of you are wrong. CuBr has bands just below and just above the designated blue spectra. They lie at 334.2 and 388.1. Blue runs from 335 -380. Those like in the transitional areas between blue and purple, and blue and green respectively. CuBr theoretically gives a better blue, lying more in the purple blue range, than the blue-red or blue-green range that CuCl can give. I personally find the purple-blue color more pleasing.

As far as a good fluorine based oxidiser, try teflon.

Edited by Mumbles, 13 September 2007 - 09:46 PM.

[hashashan]

I never thought about fluorine because i wouldnt like to mess around with fluorine, its too much for me.

And mumbles where do you get the specra's from? id like to see those figures, i mean of various halides.. not just copper

[Mumbles]

They're on page 42 of Pyrotechnics by Hardt.

[hashashan]

Wow, thanks
The PbCl looks interesting. did anyone tried to add some PbCl2 into a cholorate based composition?

Edited by hashashan, 18 September 2007 - 07:57 AM.

[YT2095]

no, not Yet but when I get 5 mins I think I`ll give it a go also, it`s much more in the Real Blue area, also it would seem that CuBr is only Green when the ionisation is Electrically stimulated (Copper Bromide lasers are all green) hence I said that it will be green.