54 replies to this topic

[Asteroid]

I think he means that he doesn't ignore all the rules everyone else does. That's a very interesting story bog. Certainly scary, and interesting as ever to see how little the polce know, and how the media (yorkshire post again) twist the words to make it seem like half a kilo of fertilizer is capable of bringing down all of london.

[bogsulphur]

Reading this makes me a bitt woried. Here a member talks about selling KNO3 on eBay, obvously as a private person, and admittingly telling the forum that he does not give a shit about the rules for sale. And in the same breath, complaining about getting investigated for it..
And people wonder why pyro has a bad rep? Jeez.

im sorry aquarius if i gave out that impression. i said i do all the stuff everybody believes ebay sellers ignore - i.e. i DO send it securely, i ONLY post to confirmed addresses on both ebay and paypal, i ONLY accept paypal or cheque etc.

anyway yeah. steve, what was he trying to buy from you? something that needs age verification? it says in the article he was 17. I worked it out by the way, I dont need to pay tax on any earnings because I dont earn enough (im a student, ha ha). but I have made four and a half thousand selling kno3 over that time.

the experience did make me think though, about the people who actually make these laws. like nowadays all these anti terr0ri5m laws were just banged out one after the other by politicians. what do they know about the realities of explosives and the like? You'd have to spend months educating them before they could even begin to make an informed decision.

[receive]

No. I can't quote him, but I'll quote this:

And before you start, yes, I do all the stuff everybody loves to believe ebay sellers ignore.

You could quote him, apparently, you just did!

And as Asteroid said, what he meant was the he is a good eBay trader and does the things that other sellers don't do but should.

[aquarius]

Well, my intention was not to slag on bogsulphur, but this is a proven problem in most of the forums I'm into. My latest wisit to a different forum had a true story:

A member had problems with getting caught by the police and centenced to jail. A lot of responce and they all felt sorry for him, until one member asked for a bit more details. At first, he told that the police had found "some stuff" in his car. Fair enough, but why would they search his car in the first place? Because some asshole had blown up to (10!) roadside toilets. And just because he had did the same thing ast year, he felt wrongly accused...

And then he asked if anyone knew the penalty for storing ten kilos of stolen dynamite....
He got nine months for this AND his theft of over 1000 kilos of dynamite.
It was his second sentence by the way.

So you see, I get a bit worked up over people complaining about getting caught by the police, when often they have stepped over the line.
Myself, I am a licenced Cat 4 operator and pyrotechnician, and I get a bit frustrated when people act silly, pretend to be into pyrotechnics and all they do is rain shit on the rest of us trying to have a safe and fun hobby or income (of some sort...)

[Steve]

Bogsulphur, you do have to pay tax. You need to pay company tax because you are making a profit. You may not have to pay tax on your earnings. You are selling illegally, I'm telling you this as a fact. You say you do things propperly, do you know what CHIP and COSHH mean, and your resposibilites as a seller under these legislations?
Don't take too much offence, I'm just narked off that Inoxia has to compete with people that have zero overheads because they are selling illegally.

However much people compalin about the law, it is there for the good of the nation as a whole. We should really consider ourselves luck that there is a way we can operate legally, because it would be far easier just to ban any pyrotecnic experimentation whatsoever, it won't harm the vote, hardly anyone (as a percentage of the population) will care, and the country WILL be a safer place. (Personally I would not be happy with, nor would I recommend this drastic solution to legilsating the country, but it would cerntainly be easer from the government's point of view)

[bogsulphur]

Bogsulphur, you do have to pay tax. You need to pay company tax because you are making a profit. You may not have to pay tax on your earnings. You are selling illegally, I'm telling you this as a fact. You say you do things propperly, do you know what CHIP and COSHH mean, and your resposibilites as a seller under these legislations?
Don't take too much offence, I'm just narked off that Inoxia has to compete with people that have zero overheads because they are selling illegally.

However much people compalin about the law, it is there for the good of the nation as a whole. We should really consider ourselves luck that there is a way we can operate legally, because it would be far easier just to ban any pyrotecnic experimentation whatsoever, it won't harm the vote, hardly anyone (as a percentage of the population) will care, and the country WILL be a safer place. (Personally I would not be happy with, nor would I recommend this drastic solution to legilsating the country, but it would cerntainly be easer from the government's point of view)

No worries, theres a limit on tax free earnings for private individuals which is about £5000, I make about £3000 every summer from factory work and nowhere near £2000 profit from ebay. But I'm a student so I just fill out a form and tax doesn't get taken off at all. I used to work in a rubber factory handling sulphur and peroxides by the tonne which involved a (albeit incredibly simple)coshh lecture and test every month. I asked the police who interviewed me if I was under suspicion or anything and they specifically told me they had checked and what I was doing is in no way illegal.

[Steve]

If that was a lawyer I would drop it, but it's a well know fact, admitted by the same police that to our statements that, the police don't actually know much about the law. They certainly don't don't about specifc laws concerning the chemical industry. The side of COSHH you see as an employee is nothing like the side that you need to get involved in as an employer. However much money you make, if you are selling, even 1 item on a commercial basis (which you are, you're hardly selling off excess for 2.5 years) you need to be registered as self employed or register as a company. I can't put this any more simply, you are breaking the law. I really honestly know what I'm talking about here.

[marble]

Wow, arrested for having some kno3 and calcium chloride

Assuming he made shit hot BP with his nitrate (I doubt he would) all he could make would be a few pipe b**bs which in the grand scheme of things are pretty crap at causing terror and all the other crap that goes with it.

I'm more concerned about him being busted with a shitty cookbook (those things are useless, express ticket to loosing your life) which to me seems like a attack on information.

The teenager is charged with possession of material for terrorism purposes under Section 57 of the Terrorism Act 2000, and with the collection or possession of information useful in the preparation of an act of terrorism, under Section 58 of the same act, between June 1, 2006 and September 17, this year.

I guess that means my science textbook could get me arrested in your country

Edited by marble, 24 November 2007 - 02:32 PM.

[YT2095]

I take a Slightly Different view on this, this Asian fella ought to be Thankful that the police Did stop him, if he had that anarchist crapbook, they`v Probably saved his life! and his mommy a good deal of grief!

[icarus]

i agree the first thing you find out with the internet is that anyone can and does post an article that is complete garbage from time to time even pfp database has none inflammable stars and occasional rubbish formulations in it Some books you might buy (ie chemical magic) are full of rubbish formulations I am proud to have been kicked off an american anarchist site many years ago for posting my honest opinion of them . we worry our activities could result in wrongful arrest- my main concern is that would waiste precious resources that could have been better used .I keep written records of all pyro experiments to account for chemicals used. I keep everything secure,but i make as bad a job of hiding as i can leaving audit trails and addresses with every purchase. I would have wanted to throw a party to celebrate if an anti terrorist officer told me he had someone in custody or better still to throw the key away!! anyone having a copy of the terrorism book mentioned in the yorkshire post article has earnt their place in a prison cell as its so far removed from our pyro hobby. SELLING KNO3 ON EBAY CHEAPLY AND SO OBVIOUSLY NOT COMPLYING WITH RELEVANT LEGISLATION IS DESPICABLE!!! the anti terrorist squad would be content u hadnt breached anti terrorism law and wanted you on board as a witness which is why they didnt harass you . Legitimate companies such as inoxia are not just at an unfair financial disadvantage but their entire market place is put under threat of increased legislation dreamt up by bored politicians who point to what you are doing and try to legislate against it .

[marble]

Anarchists cookbook is hardly a terrorist guide.

It is filled with utter shit and useless information, the worst he could really do with it is take his own life while. Even the read raghead books are poorly written I'm surprised they are even able to make something while keeping their limbs intact.

[receive]

anyone having a copy of the terrorism book mentioned in the yorkshire post article has earnt their place in a prison cell.

Its very sad to see people thinking that, and even worse I don't think your opinion is unique

[YT2095]

I guess that means my science textbook could get me arrested in your country

No, I have plenty science text books, but you`ll find the only explosive that it goes Part way into detail about making is TNT, most all School chem text books have this in, it`s not ilegal at all.
it`s a legitimate part of Chemistry and explains the Reasons why the O2N groups attatch.

[receive]

No, I have plenty science text books, but you`ll find the only explosive that it goes Part way into detail about making is TNT, most all School chem text books have this in, it`s not ilegal at all.
it`s a legitimate part of Chemistry and explains the Reasons why the O2N groups attatch.

If its in a classroom, its legit. If its in the bedroom of a non-white, then it certainly could be encompassed by the wide net of anti-terror laws if the investigation wants it to be.

[Arthur Brown]

There is the type of application that the person may put the item or knowledge to, for consideration too.

I have a huge knife but it sits in the kitchen next to the breadboard. -It's considered a normal kitchen breadknife.

If I brandished the same knife in a public place then there would be offences committed.

I look at pyrotechnics as a hobby with pretty colours, shapes and movement. Stars, rockets, cakes, cones, candles etc even the noise is incidental though some noise is essential.

I'm a graduate chemist I could mis-apply pyro and chemistry but I am dis-inclined.