9 replies to this topic

[ak_4554]

So recently ive been attempting to make chlorate flash and most of the time it just deflagerates fast which im not looking for. I understand the danger with chlorates too so you dont have to mention it =)

I make my chlorate with a cell using platinum electrodes, i make a 1 1/2 liter solution of 450 grams of potassium chloride and run it in the cell for about 4-5 days with about 3-5 amps 6 volts. I rinse it with cool water and let it dry.

I have 600 Mesh Flake AL (got if off ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/...1QQcmdZViewItem)

Ive tried these ratios:
KCLO3/AL
7:3

6:4

65:45

55:45

Ive also added sulfur to them to speed it up and ive only got about 2 good tests with 6:4 and i still can't figure out whats wrong

Any tips?

[marble]

1. Flash doesn't detonate
2. Got a video of your flash?
3. How fine is the chlorate?

[ak_4554]

1. Flash doesn't detonate
2. Got a video of your flash?
3. How fine is the chlorate?

1. 20 Grams of my friends chlorate flash unconfined is twice is loud as my .223 but it may not be detonating
2. Ill take a video of it in about 20 minutes =)
3. Its about as fine as sugar but ive seen flash using chlorate granules larger than sugar and still perform amazingly.

Ive ball milled my chlorate as fine as flour and it just burned slower and didnt do much.
I also dry my chlorate in the oven (risky i know) at about 100 degree celcius.

[cooperman435]

1. 20g is way too much to be "experimenting" with 2g is enought to self confine
2. I wouldnt posta video of chlorate and sulphur flash as its stupid
3. If you take the time to read through the forum Im sure you will soon understand why "sugar" sized granules are probably your cause for failure.


Mixing chlorate and sulphur is just plain daft in anyones book. READ all the many many posts on here warning of the dangers of exactly this mix and thats even before we start taking into account the metal powder added to your death mix!

I suggest going back to the paperwork and working out how to test your chlorates purity and cutting out the sulphur completely as close aquantences of mine have first hand experience of the bad things that happen when fine sulphur and chlorates are mixed even in VERY small quantities.

DONT DO IT and why is the seemingly first project your attempting is flash? COOL B**BAZ springs to mind! its a component part of pyro but most other things are needed first.

[ak_4554]

1. 20g is way too much to be "experimenting" with 2g is enought to self confine
2. I wouldnt posta video of chlorate and sulphur flash as its stupid
3. If you take the time to read through the forum Im sure you will soon understand why "sugar" sized granules are probably your cause for failure.


Mixing chlorate and sulphur is just plain daft in anyones book. READ all the many many posts on here warning of the dangers of exactly this mix and thats even before we start taking into account the metal powder added to your death mix!

I suggest going back to the paperwork and working out how to test your chlorates purity and cutting out the sulphur completely as close aquantences of mine have first hand experience of the bad things that happen when fine sulphur and chlorates are mixed even in VERY small quantities.

DONT DO IT and why is the seemingly first project your attempting is flash? COOL B**BAZ springs to mind! its a component part of pyro but most other things are needed first.

I agree with sulfur and chlorate shouldn't be mixed, i only put in sulfur in 1/2 gram mixes. My friend friend is an engineer, a pyrotechnic, and has a valid ATF license = ) He even has his own bunker and a proffesional explosives ignition system, i definately wont be mixing anything at that quantity.

[marble]

Sulfur and chlorate while not recommended is fairly safe if both are dry and you use it within a few hours. Unless you do something stupid it wont spontaneously ignite.

Sugar sized granules will result is poor results, you need to get it much finer than that (400 mesh+).

In my experience 7:3 with potassium chlorate is damn close to 7:3 with potassium perchlorate

[BigG]

Sulfur and chlorate while not recommended is fairly safe if both are dry and you use it within a few hours. Unless you do something stupid it wont spontaneously ignite.

Sugar sized granules will result is poor results, you need to get it much finer than that (400 mesh+).

In my experience 7:3 with potassium chlorate is damn close to 7:3 with potassium perchlorate

Chlorate and sulphur are not relevantly safe, and I would not suggest to anyone to make such a claim either. Mixtures of chlorate and sulphur are actually specifically outlawed in many countries (I believe they are now outlawed in the new MSER?) and for good reasons. Many consider them to be the main driver behind the drop in pyrotechnic factories accidents across the board. They still use them in some countries (E.G. Malta) where sometime financial consideration precede certain elements of safety. Risk management is the way they choose to go.

Discussion about mixing flash powders and the prepare procedures have been discussed widely in the past. Please to not post duplicate threads, and search for threads that are older then 90 days.

Thanks.

[MDH]

Yes... Ak 4554, there is a pinned topic in pyrotechnic formula called "flash powder". If you wish to discuss this further I will there.

Keep in mind chlorates and sulfur are dangerous... you might as well be handling strike anywhere matches. You have to be very gentle.

[marble]

Chlorate and sulphur are not relevantly safe, and I would not suggest to anyone to make such a claim either.

In small amounts using both dry chlorate and sulfur it is fairly safe provided you get rid of it within a few hours, it is much more sensitive but the notion that it will just spontaneously ignite is wrong, they were selling chlorate and sulfur based firecrackers for years without any major issues on the consumer side.

[BrightStar]

They still use them in some countries (E.G. Malta) where sometime financial consideration precede certain elements of safety. Risk management is the way they choose to go.

Sadly, eight experienced Maltese fireworks makers including the well respected Anthony Farrugia of the St. Michael's Fireworks Factory were killed in three major explosions in 2007.

The accidents may or may not have been chlorate related, contamination having been suggested. The widespread use of chlorates in Malta must surely be considered as a contributing factor.

Edited by BrightStar, 27 January 2008 - 09:56 AM.