20 replies to this topic

[Pete B]

Hi there!

I've done a search on forum and read all the topics on firing systems but I wanted to start a new topic to get some opinions on my ideas and so on. I'm currently doing stuff for my own private use (mostly 5th November) using 1.4G fireworks and some small homemade fountains, mines, and roman candles. Nothing too adverturous.

I started off with the old hand lighting method, then moved on to nail boards and similar, however, this year I want to build a computer firing system and was thinking of going down the Midi route using something like this: http://www.gemhut.com/hmeproducts.htm which would pretty much give me 128 cues to start with, and plenty of room to expand later. I work with Midi everyday as I'm an audio engineer and my idea is to use Cubase to sync the midi cues with a musical track. Cubase also generates SMPTE time code so I can sync DMX effect lighting, lasers, and even video if I ever wanted to.

Has anyone else here ever done this? What would be the best way to make it safe and robust, as obviously I dont want pyros firing everywhere uncontrolled?

Edited by Pete B, 21 March 2008 - 03:17 PM.

[portfire]

Hi Pete B and welcome to the forum. I must say this is quite interesting, I also use Cubase ( although I'm more of a Reason man ), and never even knew about SMPTE time codes ( http://en.wikipedia....SMPTE_time_code ), let alone using Cubase for pyro. I'll be very interested to see your results.

Dean

[Arthur Brown]

http://www.pyrounive...orumdisplay.php?** this is a thread elsewhere by and for people who have a "build a fireworks controller" hobby

Remember that you will want to have your fireworks outside so a licensed copy of cubase may not run on an old lappy. DMX is frowned upon though some systems seem to use it.

There are several systems going from 8 data lines from a parallel port giving 256 cues. Read the thread and see all the softwares that exist see if you can use or adapt one.

However expect it to cost more than a cheap manual radio controller.

** Sorry this link broken! Good link in post below.

Edited by Arthur Brown, 22 March 2008 - 10:25 AM.

[Pete B]

http://www.pyrounive...orumdisplay.php? this is a thread elsewhere by and for people who have a "build a fireworks controller" hobby

Remember that you will want to have your fireworks outside so a licensed copy of cubase may not run on an old lappy. DMX is frowned upon though some systems seem to use it.

There are several systems going from 8 data lines from a parallel port giving 256 cues. Read the thread and see all the softwares that exist see if you can use or adapt one.

However expect it to cost more than a cheap manual radio controller.

Hi! Thanks I'll checkout that info. EDIT - that link doesnt work but i will do a search of said forum.

Dont worry I wont be using an old lappy lol, I'll be using my music laptop to run things because it was specifically built to be extremely stable and the same with Cubase - its one of the tightest sequencers around.

The DMX lighting program will be stored in a seperate machine, standalone, but it runs the program in sync with everything else by using the SMPTE timecode generated from Cubase.

Edited by Pete B, 21 March 2008 - 04:50 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

http://www.pyrounive...isplay.php?f=16


Read there widely! several people have done controllers, some wiser on different aspects. Please don't start at the beginning and re-invent the wheel

[leosedf]

Plus.... DMX and midi are not made for safety.. Much more dangerous than other protocols.

[Pete B]

Plus.... DMX and midi are not made for safety.. Much more dangerous than other protocols.

Yeah DMX is a bit poo and unreliable, its good for lights and nothing else, but I would have thought Midi should be ok for firing? Especially midi show control...

[marble]

A home made computer controlled firing box is not difficult to make but you need to know how to program PIC's and have a decent programing knowledge. If your that way inclined it would be a great project with plenty of commercial potential as well.

[Pete B]

A home made computer controlled firing box is not difficult to make but you need to know how to program PIC's and have a decent programing knowledge. If your that way inclined it would be a great project with plenty of commercial potential as well.

Well thats something I dont have I'm afraid. I tried learning to program a few years back but I couldnt pick it up very well. I know programming PIC's is very simple but I'd prefer a simpler system without them.

[Arthur Brown]

Regimantal has a method using cat5 and USB to fire channels AND monitor continuity status. He also has software to sync cue and track

You can get 1 2 and 8 channel dmx relay modules from http://www.milinst.com/DMX/dmxtext.htm get the board without the relays and mount SSRs for immunity to false triggering.

DJ Dicky's dongle and software (Afterglow aurora) comes bundled with software to fire dmx cues from a MP3 or way

[leosedf]

I suggest to drop DMX and get yourself some cheap wireless boards with encoding like those http://cgi.ebay.com/...6QQcmdZViewItem
and build something like that: http://uk.youtube.co...h?v=u86kCX8TCkE .

[Arthur Brown]

The latching boards from "emade in China" are a poor choice! for firing firewoeks you really do need momentary contacts. Some Americans have done a deal with this company and get an 8 momentary + 4 latching module kit.
This has however the co-fire problem that goes with relays. relays are BAD. If the receiver is close to a firework then the ground thump that comes from the lift charge shakes all the relays and some or all will trigger because of the contact bounce of shaken relays.

I saw a demo recently and on the press of the first button three comets went up - it should only have been one! and the next two channels didn't fire!

Is your Cubase and PC and SMPTE programming up to standard for taking a music track, liking time code, then using that code to separately sync DMX for intelligent lighting and either a wired or wireless firing system for fireworks.

[leosedf]

I changed the relays to some more safe ones. They don't fire when the device is shaken or hit.
You can always build your own with Holtek Chips and Aurel transmitters.

[Arthur Brown]

I saw a rebuild recently with the RF and logic from a madeinchina kit and the logic outs feeding some big mosfets the four from the latch ccts corresponding to slat selects and the eight momentary being cue selects. I also think use of intelifets is a good idea - they survive short ccts! But at a cost.

You may wish to consider having a recording computer and a playback computer. the environment on a cold wet firing site isn't conducive to having a good, stable, long life computer!

Edited by Arthur Brown, 22 March 2008 - 10:29 AM.

[Pete B]

get yourself some cheap wireless boards

I really dont trust wireless. I use those wireless networking routers and cards around my home for the internet etc and they've caused so much trouble that I've hardwired our main computers now and only use wireless for laptops (i.e. if we want to sit in the garden).

Plus, I think Cat5e cable is so cheap nowadays they's no excuse not to really. Looking on eBay I can get 100m rolls for about £25, my spectatators need to be 25m away for 1.4G and my system needs to be away from them, lets say 8m with me standing over it, so theres 33m - 3 runs per 100m roll. Its 8 core cable, so that means I can pair up and get 4 cues with continuity checking, might even put some fancy LED's on my control board to show each cue's status

Now I'm thinking of building each slat with 12 cues, thats 24 wires, so a 25-way Dsub connector for each slat would be perfect. I imagine my control board shows which cues havent fired (contunuity LED) and I have a switch next to each slat group to disable the power.

Is this sounding ok so far?

Is your Cubase and PC and SMPTE programming up to standard for taking a music track, liking time code, then using that code to separately sync DMX for intelligent lighting and either a wired or wireless firing system for fireworks.

Yeah, I dont want to sound cocky but I would consider myself an expert in Cubase just because I work with it everyday and have had professional training. If I was an expert in electronics as well, I could program Cubase to drive your car to work

Thats one of the reasons why I'd like to use it for this firing system. If anyone else wanted to copy this particular system, I could write a tutorial on programming midi and time codes etc, its very straightforward stuff.