19 replies to this topic

[s123]

Hi,


I've made BP using kn03 in the past (just small fire crackers). It was good

I've recently discovered i actually have a large tub of sodium chlorate in my garage, (without fire depressant). I know the risks, that it's hydroscopic, toxic, and you shouldn't get it near sulphur ever. All i want to do is make a simple firecracker using it (seeing as i have it already..).

I've done a search but can't find anything.


Does anybody have a simple composition to making something with properties similar to bp? Using charcoal preferably, that i could shove in some carboard tubing with a fuse and make a simple banger type thing out of, then maybe have a go at making a bottle rocket.

Please don't just tell me to get some kn03!

Thanks

[pyromaniac303]

It is too hygroscopic and sensitive for general use, best avoided really. Also any equipment (mortar and pestle, containers, mixing devices, milling media) etc in contact with any chlorate should be reserved for chlorate only, or washed extremely thoroughly.

There are very few, if any rocket propellants using sodium chlorate as it is just too hygroscopic and would become unusable 'mush' within hours of being left in the open air.

Either use it on your weeds, or convert it to potassium chlorate for use in colour comps and H3 (useful for burst in small shells) by adding potassium chloride and then filtering out the precipitate (search as there are already a number of topics on this).

The only chlorate based rocket propellant I recall is a whistle mix based on potassium chlorate and potassium benzoate, far too sensitive and fast for most uses though.

[dr thrust]

hi, welcome to the forum, my advise well put it on the dandelions , and get some kn03, sodium chloride can spontaneously combust when mixed with other materials especially organics so its not worth the risk you be hard pressed to find any formula that uses it, if your serious /passionate about pyro then start off with the right materials, and invest a bit of cash pyro's not cheap!

[marble]

sodium chloride can spontaneously combust when mixed with other materials especially organics so its not worth the risk

Rubbish, its not much diffrent to potassium chlorate aside from the fact its hygroscopic.

[s123]

Hi again,


thanks for the advise folks.


One last question though, i read on here about H3, which is potassium chlorate and charcoal in a 10:3 ratio. Would you be able to use this ratio with sodium chlorate? Are they oxiders of roughly the same strength?

If not, i'll probably have a go at converting it to pottasium chlorate.

And btw, i won't be using it with any other composition etc, or storing it for any length of time. Oh and i have some nice latex gloves ready

[portfire]

Rubbish, its not much diffrent to potassium chlorate aside from the fact its hygroscopic.

I think he meant to say Chlorate, Sodium Chloride is nice with chips though

s123- It looks to me like your just starting out, and are after making bangers, right?. We're not really interested in them here, unless they're used as inserts or rocket headers.

That aside, my advice is stay well clear of Chlorates altogether for now, and maybe, in quite a few years, after you've gained enough experiance you can start experimenting with Potassium Chlorate. This is of course after you've had enough experiance with Potassium Perchlorate, which by the way is the most commonly used Oxidizer you will see here for color production.

Master Blackpowder production first, (using the right chemicals) then fountains, rockets, even wheels, they're much more fun than bangers.

[s123]

Nah not bangers. I just wanted to see if i could get it anything like bp. I've just found that sodium chlorate and charcoal in a 75-25 ratio burns very very fast, and with about 50-50 i made quite a nice smokey fountain. I think i'm going to quit while i'm ahead now and just get some potassium nitrate.

[dr thrust]

yeah sorry late night typo! chlorate not chloride , i personally wouldn't like a tube of mushy sodium chlorate/ whatever, mixed goop sitting in my workshop on the off chance it would or wouldn't go up would you?

Edited by chris m, 13 May 2008 - 05:37 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

I'm sure that if you read COPAE and other vintage texts, you will find lots of useful formulae using chlorate. propellants, effects and colours.

The huge problem with chlorate is the incompatibility with sulphur compounds and sulphur. You will need a thorough working system to prevent even trace contamination. It's nothing special to have a full set of tools for chlorate compounds and a separate full set of tools for sulphur based compounds.

Potassium salts are preferred as they are stable wrt water. Sodium salts will 1/ always burn with a bright yellow, 2/ naturally absorb water from the air and become noticeably damp. The damp salt is likely to dissolve the traces of free acid from the sulphur and the chlorate/sulphur acid reaction will cause the mix to heat internally to it's fire point.

[pyrotrev]

Yes, starting with nitrate mixtures is likely best. I would keep your chlorate in a safe dry place though, as mentioned it could be useful for making potassium or barium chlorate in the future.

[defective]

i know this is an old thread but before i started reading about pyro and joined this forum i realy had no idea about the dangers of chlorate.

it just occured to me that i used to filter out the chlorate from the weedkiller and store it in my shed underneath my turntables in a plastic tub surrounded by records and other combustible things. .

since then they have been disposed of on a fire.

[seymour]

I personally do not see the danger of having Sodium chlorate surrounded by flammable objects. I personally have a few hundred grams in a highly flammable cardboard box. I've been planning to use it to make Barium chlorate, which can be done, with repetitive recrystallizing to remove that really annoying Na+!

It is not going to do anything devious just in its own.

However I do also dislike the stuff.

[MDH]

In rare cases sodium chlorate has been known to spontaneously combust however the environment must be just right.

For instance, mix some sodium chlorate with gardening sulfur. Add a small amount of water and leave it in the sunlight outside. There is a great chance that it will eventually combust.

[seymour]

In rare cases sodium chlorate has been known to spontaneously combust however the environment must be just right.

For instance, mix some sodium chlorate with gardening sulfur. Add a small amount of water and leave it in the sunlight outside. There is a great chance that it will eventually combust.

For sure, but that is a very extreme example! I see no chance of that occurring in a bag of the stuff, sulfur free in a shed under a turntable.

[peanutbutter]

Hi,


I've made BP using kn03 in the past (just small fire crackers). It was good

I've recently discovered i actually have a large tub of sodium chlorate in my garage, (without fire depressant). I know the risks, that it's hydroscopic, toxic, and you shouldn't get it near sulphur ever. All i want to do is make a simple firecracker using it (seeing as i have it already..).

I've done a search but can't find anything.


Does anybody have a simple composition to making something with properties similar to bp? Using charcoal preferably, that i could shove in some carboard tubing with a fuse and make a simple banger type thing out of, then maybe have a go at making a bottle rocket.

Please don't just tell me to get some kn03!

Thanks

Hey, i am waiting for some Kno3, ( post ), at the time i had no Kn03 so i used some sodium chlorate weedkiller from my local garden centre, although it does have fire depressents, i also looked on the internet, but to no avail, i made black powder with it, i dont have a ball mill, so i ground it in a pestle and morter, ( i now have blisters ) but i didnt add alcahol, do you have to? anyway it was not great, i could not get it to , bang just lots of flames, but it did have a high burn rate and it left alot of ash/rubbish, although i have never made any blackpowder , succesfully, sorry if this is not of anyhelp, give it a go, but wear a mask, dont breathe it it,