182 replies to this topic

[adamw]

A magazine is a registered store where all your explosives live. A factory magazine is usually a re-inforced shipping container or a big thick metal box. You would also need seperare stores for your fuels and oxidisers. You would need a fair few number of process buildings, because the HSE stipulate only a certain number of people (usually no more than 2) are allowed in a building containing explosives at the same time.

There are a lot of other things that need to be considered. Just phone, write or email (they actually prefer the latter) the HSE and ask for a explosive factory information and application pack.

[BigG]

I think we should not all start asking for applications at once ? as I already stated to the HSE that I?m looking at a place for amateurs, I suggest to keep their knowledge low about how many people work around not within the limits of the law. I should get the information by the end of next week and will have most of the answers.

Gor, I agree that all your question are valid, but you are too far ahead ? our first concern is to actually see it?s within our capabilities ? location and money, to execute such a plan. Magazine tends to be expensive (although a very small explosive magazine does not cost more then a few hundreds). Insurance cost money, fence cost money, and workshop cost money?. Let keep the focus on that at the moment.

If we have 50 members in the club, even if three or four are allowed in the workshop at one time, I believe it would be enough. We might run a booking system and an organized inventory where people will state what they want and we will buy bulk.

Adam, we might get exemption about fuel and oxidizer separation. This is due to the low quantity of raw material we are going to hold. Please advice what will be the best way to find a legitimate location for our operation.

Last thing everyone must understand that while the people running such a club might be elected democratically, the members will have to obey without argument for the requests of the people elected. The HSE made it very clear that a club must have a structure and people who will be held responsible for any accidents.

BigG

[Richard H]

A basic factory needs at least 4 buildings. A building for chlorate compositions, a building for non-chlorate compositions, and a building/magazine for storage of each.

Best option is a number of small wood work huts - 1 per person , several meter's apart.

A magazine is a secure structure in which to store materials, e.g. shipping container lined with wood.

[BigG]

A basic factory needs at least 4 buildings. A building for chlorate compositions, a building for non-chlorate compositions, and a building/magazine for storage of each.

Best option is a number of small wood work huts - 1 per person , several meter's apart.

A magazine is a secure structure in which to store materials, e.g. shipping container lined with wood.

Chlorate will bring a range of monitoring problems to the club as well.

The need for chlorate is for very specific formulas, and we could inspect it in the future. For the moment Perchloarte could be used for colour production, allowing us a more cheap start (only two buildings).

Perchlorates should be easy to obtain once we have the club up and running.

Do we have to do with a full size shipping container? I think that up to 50 odd kilos you can store in a magazine that look like a big metal box...

BigG

P.S. Just thinking realistically. I think cost will be a major factor of whether this club ever comes to live.

[Gor]

BigG, Sorry if I leap too far, but helping individuals and organisations turn dreams into buildings is what I do, from a small church group needing a tea room to multi-million pound research establishments (I have both on my books), and the more that we can build a clear living picture of what we need the more that we will..

1. Show the HSE and others that we really know what we are talking about

2. Convince each other that this project could get off the ground

3. Know that our budgets are realistic.

I sense that you have started something really big here and running with the positive energy you have created is important. If what we need to start is three garden sheds and a strong metal box, then the only real question is 'Where'. If we need to raise ?30k for some better kit then the question is 'Where from?' If we need ?100k to buy an old stone barn on a windy moor, and enough land to set off our displays then hey, lets do it, the key to all this is having a project which is exciting. The world out there is so bored that money will gather around anything which provides some excitement.

I suppose another thing we might need is somewhere to sleep.

Oh and what about planning permission?

[bernie]

A fireworks club is a great idea. I might suggest contacting the PGI to see if they can provide some assistance.

The Florida club tries to get together at least once a month. Rarely is it in the same location. It is not unusual for several members to drive two or three hours. We do not always shoot fireworks either. Our fall fest is coming up in Nov. and it's a four hour drive from where I live. You fellas over in the UK might have different circumstances to deal with but don't let distances put you off.

Sleeping arrangements: We have two 'major events' each year. There are some campers and some show up in RVs. The majority of folks just rent hotel homes for a couple days. Our fall event draws 120 members +/-. When that many people show up in a smallish town and rent rooms and frequent eating establishments for two or three days the local businesses welcome us with open arms.

I hope that you are able to pull this off. We have a really great bunch of club members and getting together to talk pyro is more fun than you can imagine. Everyone is an instant friend. I've got my fingers crossed.

Edited by bernie, 21 September 2003 - 04:55 PM.

[zanes]

guess who's back,
back,
back,
back again,
gain,
gain
bernie's back,
tell a friend!

Nice to see you again bernie!!

[zanes]

When that many people show up in a smallish town and rent rooms and frequent eating establishments for two or three days the local businesses welcome us with open arms.

except when they come back smelling of sulphur dioxide and leaving little black trails

[Stuart]

We could meet up every month for a weekend or somthing and only take out insurance and anything else for that weekend. This would cut costs and anybody who lives near the factory can pop around every so oftern to ensure that it's in good condition.

[BigG]

BigG, Sorry if I leap too far, but helping individuals and organisations turn dreams into buildings is what I do, from a small church group needing a tea room to multi-million pound research establishments (I have both on my books), and the more that we can build a clear living picture of what we need the more that we will..

1. Show the HSE and others that we really know what we are talking about

2. Convince each other that this project could get off the ground

3. Know that our budgets are realistic.

I sense that you have started something really big here and running with the positive energy you have created is important. If what we need to start is three garden sheds and a strong metal box, then the only real question is 'Where'. If we need to raise ?30k for some better kit then the question is 'Where from?' If we need ?100k to buy an old stone barn on a windy moor, and enough land to set off our displays then hey, lets do it, the key to all this is having a project which is exciting. The world out there is so bored that money will gather around anything which provides some excitement.

I suppose another thing we might need is somewhere to sleep.

Oh and what about planning permission?

Gor, I?m glad you have the experience. We will need it. I don?t have the intention of running this or even see it through. Once I got the information, I hope that the native British among us, those who are expected to stay in this country for a long time, will pick the initiative and see it through. I?ll be always more then happy to help.

The truth is that I just don?t know what we need yet. In the phone I was told that the bare minimum will be 1 magazine, production workshop (both registered with the local council) and an area that confirm to the require safety distances by the HSE. I?ll have the exact numbers by the weekend.

One other thing you must keep in mind that to get this done we cannot relay on any finance except our own. If we need a 100k initial investment, I do not expect this to ever see life. I truly believe that the amount of structures, and work procedures will be decided 90% according to our financial strength. I don?t see us getting the ideal, but the starting point, and then expending through the years.

As for Bernie?s comments (welcome back), of course the club will not only ?build stuff?. I expect gathering, lectures, special guest and connection to the PGI! Are we forming a club or are we forming a club!!!

BigG

Edited by BigG, 21 September 2003 - 06:42 PM.

[bernie]

I'm certain things are very different over here in the states but the way I understand the insurance issue is that the club pays an annual ins. premium that covers all events for the entire year. This is for displays.We are a nonprofit entity. A manufacturing facility seems like it would have to have it owns ins. This is speculation of course.

For what it's worth...We do two charitable events each year that I know of. The guild collects product and cash donations throughout the year and puts on a free display for these very worthy organizations. A secondary benefit is good public relations.

My understanding of how FPAG got it's start some ten years ago or more was that someone put an ad in the classified section of the newspaper and a handful of very nervous people showed up at a state park one sunny afternoon. We have a founders festival each spring.

[Gor]

Like BigG I'm not up to making this happen. I have more than enough on my plate at the moment, but if you as a group do get something together then I can make some resources available to help. I agree that 100k is not a starter, but you would be amazed what I have seen happen (I saw a steiner school given free a manor house with acres of grounds a few years ago).

Edited by Gor, 23 September 2003 - 10:46 PM.

[Gor]

zzz

Edited by Gor, 23 September 2003 - 10:46 PM.

[Stuart]

I have douts to the fact that it would take 100K to start off, think about it, thats 10th of a million. Would we be allowed to put on shows or would that cost more as it would be a good way to increase revenues.

[BigG]

I have douts to the fact that it would take 100K to start off, think about it, thats 10th of a million. Would we be allowed to put on shows or would that cost more as it would be a good way to increase revenues.

Putting on shows will cost higher insurance. Also, if you want to take your finished products with you in a car, you will have to get yourself small explosives transport license. It is easy to get, but you will need to apply for it.

While I don’t expect it to cost 100k, I would not be surprised at all if we get to 10k. The industry in the UK had more then 80 manufacturer in the start of the 20th century, and only two at the end. In that sense, we are quite unique to actually wanting to become a manufacturer. Some of the reasons for the decline are the high costs involved, although the main reason is the labour cost. Who knows, maybe we will be able to get our fireworks sold to cover the club upkeep. After all, labour in our case cost nothing – it’s the labour of love (we still need the fireworks approved by the standard institute).

I think it is worth while to start speaking about how much are people willing to pay for this dream to come true. Richard, is it possible to set sort of a questioner that will be mail auto to all members?!?!

BigG