182 replies to this topic

[adamw]

It would be difficult. Places like Alconbury are selling for BIG money. It's overkill too - all that is really needed is, in essence, a shed sized rig.

[HJS]

Discussion seems to have died off on this

I'd just like to say that I'd also be very interested in this. If it were to go from a club to a manufacturer, I would also be willing to invest into it.

Anyway, I hope this discussion becomes a reality and we all meet up to fire off our creations

[BigG]

Discussion seems to have died off on this 

I'd just like to say that I'd also be very interested in this. If it were to go from a club to a manufacturer, I would also be willing to invest into it.

Anyway, I hope this discussion becomes a reality and we all meet up to fire off our creations 

Oh - the execution of the idea did not die - I hope we will post some information in the near future. However - I must say in advance - the chance of this moving to full manufacturing is about 0. If it flies - it will be for self use only.

[HJS]

Okay, I've just re-read the whole of this thread (which was a very good re-cap).

There were a number of people who states that they were aware of property that we could possibly buy/let from the RAF/Army etc.

These are dealt with by the Defence Estates --> http://www.defence-estates.mod.uk/

Also, there was a question of age. I have set up a poll here --> http://www.ukrocketr...p?showtopic=997 Please can we all add to it. We can then make more educated decisions about how many of us can actually be involved with the set-up/running of this.

Cheers,
HJS.

Edited by HJS, 24 August 2004 - 07:12 AM.

[BigG]

Okay, I've just re-read the whole of this thread (which was a very good re-cap).

There were a number of people who states that they were aware of property that we could possibly buy/let from the RAF/Army etc.

These are dealt with by the Defence Estates --> http://www.defence-estates.mod.uk/

Also, there was a question of age. I have set up a poll here --> http://www.ukrocketr...p?showtopic=997 Please can add to it. We can then make more educated decisions about how many of us can actually be involved with the set-up/running of this.

Cheers,
HJS.

HJS - We first have to wait to the new regulation. Draft was already published, but the official document will be out at the beggining of next year. Requirements for storage and area has changed.

[The_Djinn]

With various bases being shut down due to cut backs in the MOD, there is areas for sale as well as lease / rent. Ideally a site that was used for ammo storage etc would be great as the structures would already be set up for magazines etc.
Even with the new legislation, we would still have to look at a full blown factory license for a site as the small factory license seems to have fallen by the way.... BUT, as usual even in the new legislation there are areas that have been left open for cases to be looked at on a case by case basis.
Even when the new legislation comes in, we will have to form very strong ties with the likes of EIG.

One of the biggest hurdles we will face if/when we get through all the legislation etc is location. Users of this forum are spread accross the country which will make it difficult for some people to reach a site no matter where it is based.
Even for those who would be prepaired to travell at weekends, make stars on a saturday and you cant do any more till the following weekend as they need to dry hence the temptation to continue working in the garden shed will continue and we would have users transporting quantity's of raw materials etc to the site.

At the end of the day it is a major project to set something like this up and it will be almost impossible to satisfy all the users. On top of this there will be the expense of an operation of this size, the money has to come from somewhere and I cant quite picture the lottery guy's giving us a grant. Somehow the venture would need to be able to sustain itself and there is numorous ways that this may be achieved ie. rent out storage magazines to existing pyro display company's as a lot of them are looking for more storage areas; starting a commercial display company (during display season there would be little or no time to experiment if you have the client base).
No matter which way you turn, there are always pro's and con's to setting up a large club site. We need to look closely at new legislation to see what can be achieved outside of a full factory site and possibly look at getting an area to hold open days for firing our labours of love in a simular manner to our American counterparts who have the PGI convention.
Before anyone gets carried away looking at the American model, dont forget that a lot of the Amercan guy's with backyard operations have backyards the size of a small farm in this coutry and have to follow the same guidlines layed down for full factory's.

Mark

[HJS]

Any ideas when the new legistlation will come out then ? Do we have any idea what additions/changes are expected to be made ?

The location of many users can be found here --> http://www.ukrocketr...p?showtopic=313 (Please add to this if you have not already) A summary of the people who have answered so far.........

Pyromaster2003 - North-East
XtRaVa - Portsmouth
Rhodri - New Forest
Richard H - Yorkshire
adamw - "I have been known to hang around the north east parts"
Stuart - North Wales
OxCid - north east, near Middlesbrough
zanes - wiltshire, near cirencester
yorkie - Northamtonshire
jamesuk - s/w london
lord_dranack - Merseyside
burrelly - Scotland
RegimentalPyro - Stafford - Just 5 mins from Shugborough!
Rip Rap - County Durham
markz - Blunsdon halfway between swindon and cirencester
Mortartube - East Sussex nr Brighton
AngryRhyno - Jersey
Phoenix - North Yorkshire
a2wpyro - Eastbourne
Loci - Scotland, near Perth
tajmiester - Berkshire
DrDerekDoctors - Manchester
Flashy - East Yorkshire
pritch - Newcastle
Creepin_pyro - Nottingham
Greg T - Near Haywards Heath (West Sussex)
thewildething - North Devon
ash - Aylesbury, Bucks outside of uni term time and Southampton when at uni
parabolic - Scottish Borders
HJS - Cardiff
ProfHawking - watford
spawned - Bromley
chemicalwazi - Northeast of Cambridge on the edge of them there fens

NOTE: Not all the people above will be interested in joining, traveling to the club. It's just a summary of users who have answered to the thread.

Cheers,
HJS.

Edited by HJS, 24 August 2004 - 08:08 AM.

[BigG]

Any ideas when the new legistlation will come out then ? Do we have any idea what additions/changes are expected to be made ?

Cheers,
HJS.

The regulations were supposed to be out already, but the HSE has decided to delay the implementation till Jan 2005 to avoid interference with the firework session. We already obtain a copy of the draft and from our prospective the differences are not too painful. They ditched the 1875 explosive act and it?s amendments and now have one document which is reasonably easy to understand (if you are a lawyer or someone who is ready to carefully sit on the document for a day and cross reference points with other documents

One point that is of some interest is that the words ?small quantity? are not longer used and actual weights are given. They also cross referenced this clause to the control of Explosive Regulations act to stress the fact that using this clause for making most fireworks is NOT legal.

On this subject and others, members can expect some interesting news soon ? Please wait patiently.

[blueflame]

what sort of distance would you want to the nearest residential property ?

[BigG]

0-5 meters?

Blueflame ? While both USA and UK law are driven from the UK 1875 act, over time major differences have been developed. In the UK it is legal to buy and fire fireworks all year around, while most USA states will not allow it ? as such, STORAGE laws are quite relaxed in the UK (and very much so in small quantities). However, in the USA the word manufacture is reserves for someone who ?Makes to sell? which means that you can avoid a full blown manufacturer license under amateur activity (at least in some states), while in the UK ? manufacturer is someone who ?Makes? ? regardless of what he does it for ? and as such, the procedure for an amateur or a high explosive factory is the same.

The law does allow concessions ? but those are on case-to-case basis, and are completely up to the Health and Safety executive.

The discussion of the law was always a problem on these forums because the law is written in a difficult language, and you have to read the act from start to finish (including the dozen or so acts it refers too), in order to understand your exact rights. For me to list separation distances in useless ? they depend on what the materials the storage is made from (Metal, brick, wood), whether it?s above or below ground, whether it is mounded or not, whether it has level x or level y of security, and what UN type explosive are going to be stored in it.

We are working on simplifying things to members of the BPS but as I said, news on that will be posted soon.

[PyroKid]

Hi all ...

Just a quick message registering my interests.

Although my current activities revolve around the profesional display sector (mostly due to legal reasons), i will strongly welcome the presence of a BPS club set up in order to enable the legal manufacture of fireworks / pyrotechnics on an amateur level.

I have always wanted to manufacture my own devices, but i have been reluctant to do so due to the fear of getting caught.

I will be more than willing to travel anywhere within the UK in order to carry out our activities in a legal manner, without having to watch our backs all the time.

[adamw]

Please all remember of course we are well within our rights to manufacture 'small' quantities of composition for experimentation purposes. Don't think that as soon you add 5 grams of KNO3 to 2 grams of charcoal you are going to be arrested!

The govornment should be encouraging people to experiment in scientific fields. Such innovation is sadly declining in this country.



And yes, a club is my #1 wish for the coming years!!!

[BigG]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Actually Adam, under the new regulations Jan/2005, that is no longer the case

I strongly recommend buying the Feb edition of fireworks magazine to see discussion on the matter.

[Richard H]

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Actually Adam, under the new regulations Jan/2005, that is no longer the case

I strongly recommend buying the Feb edition of fireworks magazine to see discussion on the matter.

Hmmm, I think that one can be debated somewhat, as we have in the article that BigG refers to. As I see it the HSE are not too bothered if we experiment with <100g of composition, even if we are not a laboratory etc. I seriously doubt making a small amount of blackpowder will result in the flying squad paying you a visit and shoving an MP5 up your nose...

Just my 2 pence.

[adamw]

BigG - I have read the article already, and as Richard says - I still consider it debatable.

For a start: how do you define 'Laboratory' as reffered to in the act. You do not have to register a 'laboratory'