387 replies to this topic

[Bonny]

Where did you guys manage to obtain your potassium chloride?

I can only find it at health food stores where 300 grams is going for $5. Obviously not a viable resource.

Take a look at a large grocery store or hardware store... I see it all the time in Mb for water softener.

[MDH]

I seem to be having a problem with dissolving my sodium chloride. I have dissolved the most I can @ 600 grams per litre but it doesn't seem to be doing much - about a half of it comes back and solifies or doesn't dissolve at all. Should I simply use the liquor that is there, or should I find another method of dissolving it?
-MDH

Edited by MDH, 15 February 2008 - 06:02 AM.

[Mumbles]

The main problem is that 1L of water can only dissolve around 360g. This value doesn't change much over temperature either.

[MDH]

Heh... Maybe I'll just wait until the dead sea is struck by lightning.

[MDH]

Alright, sorry for bump. I would like to ask if anybody knows what the optimal tempature for potassium chlorate production is, and if that is the cause for the buildup of potassium chloride on my cathode?

Here is my setup...

Electrolyte: 425 grams KCL per 1 Liter
Anode: Ti, PT Coated, flat
Cathode: Stainless Steel bar
Cell: around 2 Liters
Local Outdoor tempature: 0 to -2 celcius at night, 5 to 15 celcius at daytime - remains consistent around 9 at day
Power Supply: 2400 Amperes / 6 Volts

At first I was pleased to see few bubbles coming from the anode. It was not being corroded to quickly, and a tiny amount of chlorate was produced and falling to the bottom. However, after the first hour, no more chlorate was being produced, and instead, the cathode had large crystals of what I was able to confirm was not any kind of oxidizer.

The solution smells of hypochlorite, but there is no trace of chlorate in either composition tests or a dragging hammer test with a tiny amount of chlorate/sulfur comp on the ground. These crystals I assume formed because of the low tempatures outside..

Edited by MDH, 18 February 2008 - 08:07 AM.

[marble]

Interesting

I'm also running a large chlorate cell and white stuff has grown on my cathode. I just assumed it was chlorate and knocked it off with a thin bit of metal. I did remove the cathode and had trouble getting the crap off, most of it went away with running water but there is a lot of residue on my cathode. I recently processed my first batch and I'm fairly confident its highly pure though.

What could it be:

1. Potassium chloride
2. Potassium chlorate
3. Potassium hypochlorite
4. Anti-cake shit?

Processed my cell today, It had been running for about a week and a bit and there were a good inch or two or crystals on the bottom. I let it sit in the sun for a while to see if it would remove some of the chlorine smell to no avail so I simply drained all the liquid and spooned out the crystals. Got a rough yield of 500gm from that but I needed to remove the hypochlorite and excess chloride.

I dumped the 500gm into 900ml of water and started to boil it, nearly all of the crystals dissolved. It was then left to cool and was then placed in the freezer (I love having a spare fridge) so I could precipitate as much product out as I could. A few hours later I had a beaker filled with lovely large square crystals with minimal chlorine smell.

The MMO anode has been great, absolutely no wear at all and the cell is very clear (a bit yellow though)

Edited by marble, 18 February 2008 - 09:52 AM.

[MDH]

So I left the cell running for three days, and no chlorate (I mean, none, not a trace) has been produced.

Frankly I'm getting a little pissed here as I've invested a lot of time and money in this...

[MDH]

Sorry to bump this, but I am still running into issues... My polypropylene 450 milliliter cell with a platinized titanium anode and stainless steel cathode quickly turned my sodium chloride solution into a murky brown liquid. I have no clue why.

[tentacles]

Probably crud from your stainless cathode, they are known to do this. The only "clean" cathode is Titanium, or another valve metal (excepting aluminum). Seems like such a shame to use a good platinum anode to make chlorate, though.

What are you using to test for chlorate? Sodium chlorate is *very* hydroscopic, I doubt you can get it dry enough to do a brute force test like dragging hammer through sulfur. If you want to see if your anode is working, try electrolyzing potassium chloride, you should get visible results MUCH faster. As Bonny said, buy a bag of KCl as sodium free water softener salt. I paid $9 for 20kg at 'Rona'. Converting NaCLOx to KClOx is time consuming, and troublesome at best. You're better off starting with KCl from the get-go unless you're operating on an industrial scale. You can dissolve enough KClO3 in warm (40C) water to make big, Na free yields out of a good sized cell.

Are you using any kind of cell additive?

reply to old posting -
pkhow - there are some people working on a MMO perchlorate anode, we have some leads that *may* be viable. There are viable chlorate anodes, certainly, and rather simple to make.

Edited by tentacles, 24 March 2008 - 06:03 AM.

[gilbert pinkston]

havent been here for a while
this thread is so sad almost every post full of mistakes and miss-imformation an almost complete lack of knowlege or reasoning ability
so much money spent on exotic metals for cathodes and platinum for anodes etc etc so much time wasted
every attempt seems over-engineered and fruitless
seems like you all are even having trouble making chlorates sad sad sad
has anyone here ever made perchlorate and if so how?
i was once told by a person he was making perchlorate at will
later i found out he was using graphite i hope he didnt hurt himself thinking his chlorate was perchlorate
again has anyone here made perchlorate and if so why aint the rest of you using that technique?
if i am missing something please explain it to me and i will be corrected

[MDH]

havent been here for a while
this thread is so sad almost every post full of mistakes and miss-imformation an almost complete lack of knowlege or reasoning ability
so much money spent on exotic metals for cathodes and platinum for anodes etc etc so much time wasted
every attempt seems over-engineered and fruitless
seems like you all are even having trouble making chlorates sad sad sad
has anyone here ever made perchlorate and if so how?
i was once told by a person he was making perchlorate at will
later i found out he was using graphite i hope he didnt hurt himself thinking his chlorate was perchlorate
again has anyone here made perchlorate and if so why aint the rest of you using that technique?
if i am missing something please explain it to me and i will be corrected

Alright mighty one. Although I am now succesfully making chlorates, my efforts are admittedly still fruitless in comparison to those of yours. I wish to know exactly what process you are using that doesn't involve tons of over engineering and exotic chemicals and metals or many hours per day of your time.

[gilbert pinkston]

ok MDA i acknowledge your accolade
and i will bless you now
have you read the archives?
they contain an abbreviated account of my endeavors ( i only type with one finger )
PS:
i like your style

[Arthur Brown]

One member here has a perc cell definitely making perchlorate producing kilos per day - Yes it was well made and could run up to 80 amps cell current. He did post all his research and development on here. He had the chemistry to purify the perc from it's chlorate contaminants, and the analysis tools to prove it's purity. -It really is worth it for 50kilo batches!

Other people had little science or engineering input into their projects, and made inferior products.

The www is full of both skilled posters and fraudsters. It really is up to you to determine who is wise when you search low provenance sources.

[marble]

That was with a decent lead dioxide anode, not a easy thing to make.

[gilbert pinkston]

"One member here has a perc cell definitely making perchlorate producing kilos per day"
come on man give
whats his name here?
i would like to read all about it