78 replies to this topic

[RichardEvans]

That's quite a broad brush statement - can you qualify it further?

Yep easily.

Nuisance fireworks as defined by Richard.

Small cheap fireworks locally available in large supply during the season.

The culprits, mainly supermarkets and others like B&Q.

Sparklers are one of the worst, they are so cheap and honestly cause the most firework injuries every year. Not that I want to ban sparklers but its a fact ironically.

Also the other majority of firework injuries comes from cheap rockets.

Oh and the small cheap fireworks being put through letterboxes or recently into a pram.

Supermarkets and other non-firework mega stores should be banned from selling them.

If this happened, firework injuries would drop hugely.

(Oh and yes I will put this blunt - Louts do not in the majority travel to proper firework stores to buy expensive fireworks, they buy cheap CAT 2 stuff from supermarkets and they are the ones who cause the biggest issue)

Edited by RichardEvans, 20 November 2008 - 07:54 PM.

[chimp]

Yep easily.

Nuisance fireworks as defined by Richard.

Small cheap fireworks locally available in large supply during the season.

The culprits, mainly supermarkets and others like B&Q.

Sparklers are one of the worst, they are so cheap and honestly cause the most firework injuries every year. Not that I want to ban sparklers but its a fact ironically.

Also the other majority of firework injuries comes from cheap rockets.

Oh and the small cheap fireworks being put through letterboxes or recently into a pram.

Supermarkets and other non-firework mega stores should be banned from selling them.

If this happened, firework injuries would drop hugely.

(Oh and yes I will put this blunt - Louts do not in the majority travel to proper firework stores to buy expensive fireworks, they buy cheap CAT 2 stuff from supermarkets and they are the ones who cause the biggest issue)

Hmm........some profound points there, clearly very well researched knowledge. Thanks.

(By the way, does the 'majority' of accidents result from the mis-use of sparklers, or from cheap rockets?....I thought that statisically there could only be one majority within a single population. Just a point - not too important).

[David]

Small cheap fireworks locally available in large supply during the season.

The culprits, mainly supermarkets and others like B&Q.

Supermarkets don't sell cheap fireworks. Other than a very small selection box, and perhaps a fountain, they tend to start at about £10 with a small cake, them move upwards with 2 or 3 more items, possibly on buy one get one "free" or "buy this get that "free" etc.

[RichardEvans]

Supermarkets don't sell cheap fireworks. Other than a very small selection box, and perhaps a fountain, they tend to start at about £10 with a small cake, them move upwards with 2 or 3 more items, possibly on buy one get one "free" or "buy this get that "free" etc.

Still very cheap from what I saw. Some of the rockets at Morison's were under a tenner, with buy one get one free this year. Two cakes for a tenner, tons of sparklers.

http://forums.moneys...h...808&page=13 - The price lists found on another forum, my scanners very bad so I cant upload.

Asda rocket pack & TNT selection box, total a tenner. (Or two rocket packs instead)

Rocket packs, selection boxes buy one get one free tenner for two from Tesco (standard fireworks)

And barrages for a fiver

I have no issue with these prices, it's the stores selling them and the availability.

As I said, troublemakers will rarely travel and go out of their way for fireworks, but these stores selling them for such a cheapy price all over the country. Add the fact the store cannot hold them forever so will want to get rid ASAP just add to the issue. I have no idea how many times I caught people buying them with a bag full of cheap larger, maybe I'm being snobbish but eh, this is where I lay the blame of the majority of accidents.

[RichardEvans]

Hmm........some profound points there, clearly very well researched knowledge. Thanks.

(By the way, does the 'majority' of accidents result from the mis-use of sparklers, or from cheap rockets?....I thought that statisically there could only be one majority within a single population. Just a point - not too important).

Well this is being discussed in another forum about rocket injuries and sparklers but from what Ive been discussing with the fire brigade, and the police est. The majority of incidents is sparklers, just like crime, huge amounts are not reported. Heck I burned myself when young and never reported it. Still an injury.

I should have said sparklers are top on the whole, but non-handheld fireworks is rockets.

There, well from what i have read and have been told,

[David]

Still very cheap from what I saw. Some of the rockets at Morison's were under a tenner, with buy one get one free this year. Two cakes for a tenner, tons of sparklers.

http://forums.moneys...h...808&page=13 - The price lists found on another forum, my scanners very bad so I cant upload.

Asda rocket pack & TNT selection box, total a tenner. (Or two rocket packs instead)

Rocket packs, selection boxes buy one get one free tenner for two from Tesco (standard fireworks)

And barrages for a fiver

I have no issue with these prices, it's the stores selling them and the availability.

As I said, troublemakers will rarely travel and go out of their way for fireworks, but these stores selling them for such a cheapy price all over the country. Add the fact the store cannot hold them forever so will want to get rid ASAP just add to the issue. I have no idea how many times I caught people buying them with a bag full of cheap larger, maybe I'm being snobbish but eh, this is where I lay the blame of the majority of accidents.

I thought by cheap you were meaning stuff for £1.99, £2.99 - the old airbomb and banger price points etc.

[chimp]

There is a difference between cheap and low cost...

Cheap as an adjective indicates a price lower than that generally expected of an item. Low cost on the other hand is simply a measure of the overall price in terms of cash.

Single shot Roman candles are low cost fireworks at £1.99 a pack rrp; Kimbolton fireworks from Pureparty for example are cheap (given the discounted prices). It's important to understand these matters when venturing into debate.

Given that many supermarket lines are exclusive to each chain then rrps are often quite meaningless - therefore as David rightly says, they don't really offer 'cheap fireworks'.

[Spyrotechnics]

Kimbolton fireworks from Pureparty for example are cheap (given the discounted prices)

alas a combination of ordering a % more than previous years and trade being a % less than previous years........

[RichardEvans]

There is a difference between cheap and low cost...

Cheap as an adjective indicates a price lower than that generally expected of an item. Low cost on the other hand is simply a measure of the overall price in terms of cash.

Single shot Roman candles are low cost fireworks at £1.99 a pack rrp; Kimbolton fireworks from Pureparty for example are cheap (given the discounted prices). It's important to understand these matters when venturing into debate.

Given that many supermarket lines are exclusive to each chain then rrps are often quite meaningless - therefore as David rightly says, they don't really offer 'cheap fireworks'.

Ok but in all fairness this is a bit pedantic. It's still pocket money fireworks, usually buying one pack and getting another pack free. But even if they wernt I would still be against it. Maybe it's because I am a believer that if a store sells something, it should have expertiese in that field and lets face it, supermarkets dont and seeing as they are mass market, they are available everywhere. Personally I would only have firework stores selling them, true they have some very low priced "cheap" fireworks but with the fact they usually have to be sought out, have much more expertiese and also can afford to reject people thus more reliable. Get rid of the huge availability and leave it to more dedicated enthusaists and private displayers = much less problems.

Just to give an example, the masses of sparklers that are sold yet barely anyone tells them how really hot they get. Don't get me wrong, I don't want sparklers banned, I think they are great but mass availability during the season from supermarkets and the fact that a real lot of the service people have very little idea of what firework regulations are apart from not selling to under 18's, it makes me very concerned for public saftey, quality control and the industry's reputation itself.

[pyrotechnist]

I believe a lot of problems with kids or w**kers getting hold of fireworks these days comes down to shops that sell them. I personally think only responsible and trained shops should sell fireworks who know what they are doing, selling and that wont sell to kids. We don't want to just sell a load of fireworks to corner shops who sell cigs and alcohol to kids all ready yet alone a firework! Shops need to be trained in what they are selling and only authorized or accepted shops should sell them.

[RichardEvans]

I believe a lot of problems with kids or w**kers getting hold of fireworks these days comes down to shops that sell them. I personally think only responsible and trained shops should sell fireworks who know what they are doing, selling and that wont sell to kids. We don't want to just sell a load of fireworks to corner shops who sell cigs and alcohol to kids all ready yet alone a firework! Shops need to be trained in what they are selling and only authorized or accepted shops should sell them.

Yep.

One shop told me themselves they have to refuse many people because of their attitude or body language.

Supermarkets are good at selling products on mass, I would have thought things such as explosives in such an environment would ring a few alarm bells.

Of course problems would not go away completely, we would still get very low common sense people blowing themselves apart or parts off of their person. And still would have just awful people like those who threw a firework into that baby's pram. Oh and yes still some fireworks would malfunction under no fault of the user, it does happen but still, I strongly belive numbers would fall rapidly.

Edited by RichardEvans, 21 November 2008 - 11:21 PM.

[chimp]

Get rid of the huge availability and leave it to more dedicated enthusaists and private displayers = much less problems.

Will also mean much higher prices........

[David]

QUOTE
(Chimp)

Will also mean much higher prices........

Yeah- Chimp is right here. If consumer fireworks stop being consumer items then it will also lead to a big decline in the number of sellers- including all year round shops. This would also take the fun out of buying fireworks, too- I like to browse and visit various shops, for people like me that is part of the fun.

Also, I disagree with Richard Evan's idea that they should " Get rid of the huge availability and leave it to more dedicated enthusaists " . Millions of people every year buy and use - and indeed enjoy- consumer fireworks safely.

RICHARD EVANS - Of course problems would not go away completely, we would still get very low common sense people blowing themselves apart or parts off of their person

That is very very rare indeed.

Edited by David, 23 November 2008 - 12:19 PM.

[chimp]

Of course. Volume equals discount. If importers stopped selling to supermarkets then some would go out of business, others would be forced to increase prices - it's not rocket science (forgive the pun).

[David]

Get rid of the huge availability and leave it to more dedicated enthusaists and private displayers = much less problems.

The other thing here is that the number of "dedicated enthusiasts" isn't high. Millions of people use fireworks annually, but the number of enthusiasts who take the time to join and post on forums such as ths one is rather limited. This isn't a criticism, of course.

Its like, for example, with wine. There are a small number of people who are dedicated enthusiasts, but the vast majority of people who consumer wine simply do it for pleasure.

With both wine and fireworks it is the case that they are produced on a large scale, with many varieties, for a large market. The entusiast benefits from this.

Other things that cater for a specific, specialist market tend to be a lot more expensive.