39 replies to this topic

[seymour]

The willow family has a huge variation, from ground hugging vines to tall upright trees. Different species are native across the Americas, Eurasia and Africa. For those that live outside the native range, such as in Australasia it is introduced and some species are considered pests.

[spanner]

An easy to find, cheap (free if from construction dumpster) wood that'll perform very good is 2 X 4-type lumber used for home construction. Spruce or pine are often used. Untreated and unpainted. Process as you normally do.

I have not done any testing against commercial powder but the pine charcoal is faster than silver maple and about the same as weeping willow.

A trustworthy pyro has done some pretty extensive testing: http://www.creagan.n...orks/index.html
and says:

"I think white pine (soft pine or spruce) is very underrated for pyro use. In all my tests with easily obtainable wood, pine was the best. It consistently beat Elephant 2fg, weeping willow and maple in burn speed and lift height (see the charcoal tests that I pointed to in a previous message in this thread). While the pine, willow and maple races were close and could flop on any given day, the ease of obtaining pine makes it a winner in my book."
END

I'm wondering if someone will run down the different "effects" they get from various types/ combinations/ mesh sizes of charcoal.

I should use just one jar, so i can get closer to the ideal 1/2 media+comp amount. Thus i would be grinding the same amount of comp but only using 1 jar?

Sure, why not? That way, if there's any problems you will know what it isn't, at least!

Can having very little material yield even faster/better results?

No. Just follow the guidelines above.

[knackers]

So we can safely say the mallee isn't good for for making fast burning bp then. I'll see about getting some willow then. Does anyone know where i might be able to find some?

Most if not all of the rivers here in au have weeping willow trees all over them, ( some councils are eradicating them due to they are not native and are drinking all the water ) so don't be shy in getting some.... you don't have to chop them down, they have plenty of dry branches that snap off... i've been getting it from my local river and have excellent results.....

you did say in a previous post that you didn't know what your media weighed... Do you have scales,, what ratio is your Bp,
i dampen my meal with 70;30 water & isopropyl alcohol or ( ethanol ) then run it through a ss kitchen collander about 25 mesh,, it drops on to the news paper as little granuals, it takes about 24 hours to dry and burns very fast,, i use the same process with dextrin ( 3--5 %) ( depends on how much bourbon i've had ) to make black match,, ( using a chinese fried rice container with a 1/8" hole drilled in the lid and ( zenith ) cotton string from the cheap shop about 1.5--2mm

[cooperman435]

The problem here is that Jefez is trying to work out his jar based on weights which you cannot do. A rock tumbler is made and classesd by the weight of rock you will polish at any one time in it but as we know lead weighs considerably more.

To mill in the most effective means (Ie fastest) then the formula is as stated numerous times above and is 1/2 a jar of media and then fill in the voids with comp, this can also be worked out as 1/4 comp and 1/2 media of an empty jar respectivly. Charcoal and is diferent types have been mentioned many times here before too.

Jefrez I strongly advise you to SEARCH the forum as every scrap of information you may ever need is contained here already including what has been posted again within this thread.

[Arthur Brown]

Willow is the classical standard for BP charcoal. Alder and pine are also used. Grapevine and balsa produce spectacularly fast BP - may actually be too fast for fireworking.

Talk with your local area tree surgeons -they will know where there are trees that meet your needs and where the wood can be had for cheap! They might even put it through their wood chipper and chop the logs into charcoalable little pieces. If you can get a growing stick from a willow tree just plant it! you will have willow for ever!

Try to avoid sawn timber that has been treated with fungicides or pesticides as these chems form poisonous clouds during the charcoaling process -they kill life forms so they will not do you much good!

[jeffez]

I have not done any testing against commercial powder but the pine charcoal is faster than silver maple and about the same as weeping willow.

So pine is good for for bp!? I had no idea! I live in right next to a pine plantation. I'll get some pine cones and make charcoal from that.

A trustworthy pyro has done some pretty extensive testing: http://www.creagan.n...orks/index.html

Wow this is extensive indeed. He certainly has done allot of work to put that together. Incidentaly that tumbler he uses is the same what i use except myne has two drums.

you did say in a previous post that you didn't know what your media weighed... Do you have scales,, what ratio is your Bp,

Each jar contains about 565 grams of lead balls, which comes to around 1.24lb. I'm using the standard 12:3:2 ratio.

Jefrez I strongly advise you to SEARCH the forum as every scrap of information you may ever need is contained here already including what has been posted again within this thread.

For sure, that's what I'll do. I think i have gained the info i need. There's many other things i will read up on.

[cooperman435]

Jefrez the "standard" ratio is 15:3:2 not 12:3:2 which will definitely not help either. I would advise against pine cones, though they do work PINE is the wood of the tree not the cones and it needs to be de barked before charcoaling.

[wjames]

isnt pine cone charcoal in the same class as straw charcoal...

i.e makes for rather sensitive BP ?

I used to use pine charcoal, but the Willow airfloat i buy is far superior, in every way - apart from the fact it gets everywhere. anyone store their charcoal wet ?

[jeffez]

Jefrez the "standard" ratio is 15:3:2 not 12:3:2 which will definitely not help either.

Sorry that was a typo I use 150g pn, 30g c, 20g s.

[wjames]

yeah, so 75:15:10


In answer to your topic question though " why does my black powder always burns slow "

Its your charcoal !!!!!

[and7barton]

So we can safely say the mallee isn't good for for making fast burning bp then. I'll see about getting some willow then. Does anyone know where i might be able to find some?

You can get airfloat willow charcoal on Ebay.
Some advice that might help, once you've got the decent charcoal.
I ball-mill my batch for 24 hours, with a drop of washing up liquid in the mix. I also use distilled water - NOT tap water. After the milling run I tip out into a dish, and scrape out any mud that has built up on the drum end caps, also putting it in the dish. Then I remove the balls.
Then - A STEEPING stage. I bottle up the mix and leave it to stand for up to a week, with a shake up a couple of times a day. This allows the nitrate to thoroughly soak into the micropores of the charcoal.
Next - tip out into a shallow plastic tray and allow to dry at room temperature. The purpose of this is to allow a good proportion of the water content to slowly evaporate, and to allow the nitrate solution within the micropores to recrystallise. This stage lasts for up to a week. After this stage the product is lumpy and damp and can be picked up as dampish clods with the fingers.
I then place this material onto a warming plate at around 75 F.
A week at this elevated temperature with occasional breaking up with the fingers, until clumping ceases to occur and the material remains unclumped. I then rub it through a coarse sieve with the fingers. Then further drying on the warming plate and more rubbing through the sieve (a plastic sieve).
When thoroughly dry the product ceases to dirty the fingers very much.
At this point I dispense into storage jars.
It's a good fast powder.
I developed this method after much experimentation.

Edited by and7barton, 18 December 2008 - 11:27 PM.

[cooperman435]

seems a lot of work for what can be a very simple procedure if you already have a ball mill!

I dont do any of that and have compared samples of BP against commercial firework powder to find identical results.

[and7barton]

seems a lot of work for what can be a very simple procedure if you already have a ball mill!

I dont do any of that and have compared samples of BP against commercial firework powder to find identical results.

I don't use it for pyrotechnics - I use it for muzzle-loading artillery.
The results from simply ball-milling (even with added 2-ton pressing), were disappointing, hence the extra treatment. In fact, I have an experimental batch that's "maturing" in the liquid stage for a six-month period, like a wine, just to see if it can improve still further.

Edited by and7barton, 19 December 2008 - 09:08 AM.

[digger]

I don't use it for pyrotechnics - I use it for muzzle-loading artillery.
The results from simply ball-milling (even with added 2-ton pressing), were disappointing, hence the extra treatment. In fact, I have an experimental batch that's "maturing" in the liquid stage for a six-month period, like a wine, just to see if it can improve still further.

Interesting, with my mill I can get results practically the same as any commercial powder grade (8 hours milling). No need for any further processing other than to dampen and rice.

Why do you wet mill? and why do think that this would improve mill efficiency?

P.S. I have seen coopermans powder and it certanly compares with any commercial powder, it is hellishly fast.

Edited by digger, 19 December 2008 - 10:17 AM.

[Creepin_pyro]

I don't use it for pyrotechnics - I use it for muzzle-loading artillery.
The results from simply ball-milling (even with added 2-ton pressing), were disappointing, hence the extra treatment. In fact, I have an experimental batch that's "maturing" in the liquid stage for a six-month period, like a wine, just to see if it can improve still further.

Sounds like you were doing something wrong if you were dissapointed, ball-milling should produce very fast powder indeed...

And what's the deal with washing up liquid, never heard of anyone doing that before...