25 replies to this topic

[GreenGenie]

When I was about ten or so we had some powder which was for sprinkling onto an open fire. A teaspoon or so of this mix when thrown on the fire would produce very pleasing dancing green flames for 30 seconds or so. The powder was a green crystal powder a little finer than sugar.

I would be interested to know what it was. This is a memory from a long time ago and so I may have the details wrong but I dont think so. I remember I bought the stuff myself at a jumble sale with pocket money.

This is an example of a coloured reaction at a low temperature burn. Would this stuff be any use to me in making a coloured fountain. I have already had some very valuable contributions from members in my previous post on colours.

[El Fuego Danza]

When I was about ten or so we had some powder which was for sprinkling onto an open fire. A teaspoon or so of this mix when thrown on the fire would produce very pleasing dancing green flames for 30 seconds or so. The powder was a green crystal powder a little finer than sugar.

I would be interested to know what it was. This is a memory from a long time ago and so I may have the details wrong but I dont think so. I remember I bought the stuff myself at a jumble sale with pocket money.

This is an example of a coloured reaction at a low temperature burn. Would this stuff be any use to me in making a coloured fountain. I have already had some very valuable contributions from members in my previous post on colours.

[El Fuego Danza]

Sounds Like Copper Filings to me! They burn both cool & green.
However, Stick to spinkling them on the fire (1/2 tea-spoon at a time), this will look good without burning the house down.
Also, Leave the manufacturing to the manufacturors!
My best friend of 20 years lost his left arm from the elbow down trying to make his own Pyro's,
and that was without even trying to ignite it!
My advice to ANYONE, is to only use Pyro products which are made Proffessionaly,for and by the Pyro Industry.
A lot of these "recipies " , available on some dubiouse web-sites, are less than reliable... as my friend will no doubt confirm!
best Regards, Roy.

[spanner]

My guess is Copper(I)Chloride CuCl (Cuprous Chloride).
Greenish-blue powder used as a blue color agent. Also makes a relatively safe coloring agent for campfires, pinecones, and fireplace logs.

[seymour]

Boric acid and many other boron containing compounds could work too.

Sounds Like Copper Filings to me! They burn both cool & green.
However, Stick to spinkling them on the fire (1/2 tea-spoon at a time), this will look good without burning the house down.
Also, Leave the manufacturing to the manufacturors!
My best friend of 20 years lost his left arm from the elbow down trying to make his own Pyro's,
and that was without even trying to ignite it!
My advice to ANYONE, is to only use Pyro products which are made Proffessionaly,for and by the Pyro Industry.
A lot of these "recipies " , available on some dubiouse web-sites, are less than reliable... as my friend will no doubt confirm!
best Regards, Roy.

I am sorry about your friends accident, but I very much doubt he was informed as many people on here are. Such accidents usually, but not always are a result of people making a critical error due to lack of information or misinformation. Here, many of us manufacture fireworks as a hobby, but also make sure we have access to good information, and do our best to inform people who want to make fireworks.

I agree that the safest option is to leave it to the professionals. I however believe I am informed enough to make the choice to manufacture myself without being unaware of the risks.

I also completely agree with your comments on the less than reputable nature of many websites. By spreading misinformation they stain our more legitimate cause, as well as more importantly contributing to horrific injuries.

Roy, perhaps you can shed some light on the specifics of your friends accident. Perhaps I, and other people who manufacture fireworks as a hobby could learn a lesson.

[Mortartube]

As mentioned before, Boric Acid is good.

I get some empty food tins and nail them onto short stakes then add meths and a little Boric Acid (about a level teasppon full) and stir it then light it. You get a nice eerie green tinged flame, perfect for Halloween. It smells a bit but kids are amazed at how magic green fire can be made.

[GZ22]

http://www.synbio.or...-news/1159.html

'Mystical Fire'!

[GreenGenie]

Thanks guys

The usual pool of wisdom and wise words that I am coming to expect. I even welcome El Fuegos remarks although they were a bit unexpected. They will certainly linger on in my mind and serve as a salutary reminder of the dangers. I hope I never experience his prophecy at first hand.

I have ordered some Boric Acid. I looked up Copper Chloride and the only place I could find it for sale it cost about £25.00 for 50g.

The Mystical Fire Powder looked great fun but what is in it? I will certainly make a note of it but I will try the Boric Acid first.

[GreenGenie]

What do you guys think about using Zinc in a fountain mix.

24 parts kno3
4 parts sulphur
4 parts charcoal
10 parts of desired metal powder

It is described in Inoxia's catalogue as one of the easiest ways to create a blue green flame. Elsewhere I have read that it can lead to spontaneous combustion in the composition. If that is true I am reluctant to pack it into a tube. If it starts to combust early deep in the packed tube I can imagine an explosion - possibly while I am holding it. I would be prepared to mix it up (diaper) and burn it as a loose pile though. I have some zinc.

What are your views.

[spanner]

$5.00/lb.
http://www.acehardwa....aspx?SKU=43243

[seymour]

Alternatively you can make it yourself with Hydrochloric acid from the hardware store and copper carbonate or metal. But with the prices on the site Spanner posted, why bother!

Zinc is fairly reactive with water, and there is a novelty mixture which contains Zinc, Ammonium nitrate and a Chloride which ignites shortly after contact with water. Zinc in other compositions is not nearly as reactive, but a large mass of dampened Zinc/Potassium nitrate could generate enough heat to ignite.

However in small quantities it should be fine. Keeping it dry is good too, though as similar compositions are made into stars using water as a solvent, it is not overly dangerous. If the reaction occurs it liberates ammonia, which can be identified easily by its smell!

Now, onto the effect that you get. If you have very coarse Zinc you may be able to get some blue/green sparks, but with most Zinc on the market it will colour the fountains flame without giving blue/green sparks, though Zinc salts may give orange sparks. I recommend that you add spark producing material for to complement the flame. Charcoal is the obvious choice, though I like to add a small quantity of Aluminium in combination of the charcoal. Too much and the colour of the Zinc will be masked.

Note that the colour of Zinc can vary significantly. I have personally had Green-Blue, Blue-green, Lemon-lime and pearly greenish white.

Edited by seymour, 01 March 2009 - 11:33 PM.

[Creepin_pyro]

Here's a nice Zinc fountain mix. I wouldn't be too worried about spontaneous combustion as long as your chems are dry and you don't store it too long. As the composition notes warn, it can be static sensitive though. It's a nice effect, bus as seymour pointed out you will not see a spray of sparks unless you use some coarse granular Zinc.

Name: Zinc Fountain
Source: Gary Moore

Potassium Nitrate 5
Zinc Powder 5
Sulfur 3
Black Powder, FFFFg 2

WARNING:
Can be static sensitive, don't mix on dry days and wear static drain band.

[Mortartube]

Why don't you just make a Zinc/Sulphur mix like the rocket boys do and tweak it a little? Easy to mix and use and no oxidisers to decay the metal. Make a fountain from that. I tried rockets (failed as the cases were too thin, you need very thick walled cardboard cases), but they did produce beautiful electric blue/green sparks)

Alternatively mix it and sprinkle a little on your campfire.

Edited by Mortartube, 01 March 2009 - 11:56 PM.

[seymour]

Sulfur is an oxidiser in this case, and due to the formation of sulfuric acid it will not be immune to reactions with moisture. However I would believe that it will react much less than if it was with nitrates.

I remember reading that Zn/S is more shock, friction and static sensitive than KClO4/Al. I cannot confirm this. Can anyone else prove it to be true or false?

I have actually used this mixture in gerbs, so I can confirm Mortartubes comments on its effectiveness. However since reading the (exaggerated?) information on its sensitivity I have been less willing to consolidate it into tubes.

[Mortartube]

I would like to find some reliable data on the sensitivity of Zn/S mixes as the guys who make the big rockets often put the two components in a big barrel and push it around the yard using their foot, (barrel on its side) for half and hour or so to mix it thoroughly. I have never heard of an accident through this method.

I am aware that the Sulphur sort of acts as an oxidiser and will degrade Zinc over time but undoubtedly less rapidly than most usual oxidisers. It is relatively safer.