27 replies to this topic

[David]

I understand the analagy, but people buy food everyday and have a better understanding of the quality of ingredients etc etc

The VAST majority of people buy fireworks once a year, have litte understanding of the impact the quality of the chemicals, manufacturing will have and will go with what they think looks good on the shelf at a certain price point, whatever that may be.

I agree totally about fireworks...

But I'm not sure people have a better understanding about food!

Its like these "Butchers Choice" sausages- are they REALLY using better quality meat?

It's all down the the way they are marketed- "traditional" quality, locally produced (thumbs up on the "eco" side) and British = a higher pricetag.


As such, whilst production costs are high in the UK, this can be ofset somewhat by the "added value" that can be given to UK made products (in some sectors.)

Edited by David, 11 April 2009 - 04:39 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

Just on price, a 20ft 20 second fountain (gerb) with ematch £65+vat for a box of ten made in the UK and as there is only an ig to light it with it would be cat4 because it was instant ignition and doesn't have the regulation delay fuse to make it cat2 or 3.

[David]

Just on price, a 20ft 20 second fountain (gerb) with ematch £65+vat for a box of ten made in the UK and as there is only an ig to light it with it would be cat4 because it was instant ignition and doesn't have the regulation delay fuse to make it cat2 or 3.

Kimbolton do a series of british made gerbs (at the bottom), the pricing is similar, depending on bore size- I think £5.99, £11.99 and £16.99 (or similar) .

Chinese cones, which are of similar quality (but a build up effect) range from about £5-£15.

It would be interesting to do a head-to-head comparison with an audience- IE fire items at the same price points and seem which they prefered.

Edited by David, 11 April 2009 - 10:36 PM.

[patrickescotland]

I would have no problem paying a premium price for British made fireworks, just like consumers who buy "Organic" and "outdoor reared" meats and produce.

There is also a good environmental argument against transportation of (Cat 2/3) fireworks all the way from China. I have read that single packs of fruit and vegetables that are shipped by air have the environmental cost of hundreds of grams of CO2. Obviously fireworks have to be transported by sea/ground, however and I am not sure what the environmental cost is in comparison.

Would a new company need to license use of some of the traditional names e.g. Traffic lights? I think a nice selection box of a dozen old favourites would be a great start. Some good marketing and buy in by the "premium" supermarkets like Waitrose might help bring British fireworks back.

[Spyrotechnics]

the two industries are massively different in national interest, market value and advertising revenues

While the organic, environmental aspect may well influence SOME food shoppers I really couldn't see the same impact being applied to such a relatively small and oh so seasonal industry such as fireworks.

[David]

Yeah, it's hard to say.

We havn't seen (yet) the environmental/ethical aspect being applied to clothes, for example.

[David]

Worth point out that Buy one get one free is indecline- There was an article in the Guardian (winkers paper, I know) that argued that it was increasingly seen as being wasteful in environmental terms, and greedy in times of economic slump.

Being a newspaper and not an academic study they failed to support this with any statistics, other than "A look around the shelves will tell you..."

However, I do think they have percieved this accuratly, and most supermarkets do their market research well enough, so this MIGHT lead to a change in tactic.

Without the "carrot" of getting another one free, the over dressed and over priced Chinese selection box might lose some of its appeal.

Edited by David, 17 April 2009 - 06:57 AM.

[concept]

The thing to remember is that this sort of thing was successfully done not that long ago (Standard had a full British range until the late 90's and they were still making record profits). This selection box from 1995 shows how such items should be marketed; plenty of reference to British manufacture (union jack on the box and the fireworks themselves), traditional names on attractive and inspiring labels and a clear selling point "No Bangs". If someone were to take a gamble and produce a line of traditional firework similar to this I believe they would be successful.

[Arthur Brown]

Yes "if someone were to take a gamble" with £2M of their own money they might make a profit. BUT one hiccough on the way and they could lose the LOT The concept of a firework factory to UK regs producing cheap box sets isn't going to happen. The materials cost is little, the labour cost is lots the compliance cost for type testing etc is huge.

The Chinese labour cost is reputed to be $80 a month, the UK labour rate is 20x that or more. Also if you opened a fully compliant firework factory in an area of nil employment people would still complain that it was too dangerous. Current British attitudes are so risk averse and so litigatious that the risk of opening a factory are too great.

I recently heard of a factory from the UK moving to India simply because the labour cost was 67p per person DAY. For 67pence you don't get much done in the UK at UK labour rates!

The £5.50 for that selection box was 50% tax and retailer profit. so for £2.75 the maker has to find 12 different tubes load them fuse them and get them to the shop fully legally compliant in a retail pack and then in cartons. And out of that remaining pittance the company owner needs to recover capital and grow rich!!!!!

Edited by Arthur Brown, 18 April 2009 - 09:04 AM.

[Mortartube]

Are you sure that box is from 1995? The items have touchpaper which generally doesn't comply with the BS of 1988 as it is too erratic to give a consistent burn time?

The thing to remember is that this sort of thing was successfully done not that long ago (Standard had a full British range until the late 90's and they were still making record profits). This selection box from 1995 shows how such items should be marketed; plenty of reference to British manufacture (union jack on the box and the fireworks themselves), traditional names on attractive and inspiring labels and a clear selling point "No Bangs". If someone were to take a gamble and produce a line of traditional firework similar to this I believe they would be successful.

Edited by Mortartube, 18 April 2009 - 12:37 PM.

[Richard H]

I definitely recall Standard with touchpaper in the mid nineties.

[concept]

All those items are from the 1995 brochure. A couple of touchpaper fireworks are listed as late as 2001 in the Standard price list, therefore touchpaper can defiantly comply with the BS, as a fuse it does have many advantages; it is cheap and easy to make, it also makes the end product look much more attractive than if it were fused with visco (which if manufacture was started would have to be imported as with PIC finished there would be no home grown alternative).
This is the front cover of the 1995 brochure, as you can see nearly all the items are touchpapered (apart from the "new oriental selection" ) BTW if anyone has some scans of any firework retail brochures can u PM me as I'd love a copy

[David]

The Vat on £5.50 was 96p

At the given trade price the cost per box to the retailer was £3.36.

Which leaves £1.18 (21%) as the retailer's profit margin per box.

That said, Standard might have done discounts on their trade price.