25 replies to this topic

[digger]

from what iv learnt on this forum i would need training, insurance and storage lisence to access to cat 4 shells, training and storage would not be a problem but i always been intrested how much we are talking per year for public liability insurance. is it as bad as people make out.

Storage may not always be as easy as you think, you may need planning permission and that can pretty random.

[David]

I think yearly insurance is done on a quote by quote basis- but it would be a significant percentage of your outgoings, certainly.

I think "public" liability is what you need if you are actually the host of the event yourself. When I looked into this, it was a headache. Like if a child slipped on the wet tarmac* in the car park, is that part of your responsibility as the bloke doing the fireworks.

That was the exact question that was put to me when I asked.

[David]

it's funny im part of a school committee and when we were arranging a simple school fate they told us we couldn't even have a bounce a castle because of health and safety and if someone fell they could sue (we live in a strange world)

there was a landmark case about that quite recently.

A fmaily had hired a bouncy castle for their childs birthday party, and another child (I think a teenager, or a 11-12 year old) was injured playing on it .

The family of the injured boy sued (the party was insured.) The judge choose not to make an award on the grounds that it was a simple, tragic, accident, and that the people who organised could not, realistically, be in a position of supervising everyone at the party all the time.

A great victory for common sense.

Thats too why there are disclaimer signs "use at own risk" "all childen must be supervised."

[Arthur Brown]

Training -have you done a recent course?
Experience -have you recent logged experience?
Storage -Licensed to MSER and approved by the licensing authority

This starts to tell an insurer that you have taken some effort to operate safely, then you can apply for insurance

Firework specific insurance.

Comes from only a few places and these companies will charge a large premium based on their experiences - claims are never small! though they are rare.

The "starting from nothing" options that I see are:
Work as an employed occasional firer for a company, to gain some experience.
Do the Cat4 course promoted on the forum. Or find a better one and tell us!
Do some logged and documented cat3 shows.

This way you have knowledge and experience -and evidence of it- to show your insurers, to keep the cost down.

One person I regard highly told me insurance is accounted as 30% of total show price, another told me 15%. However they both had experience and a track record in the industry. Also the insurers will have a substantial minimum premium, so minimum and typical prices only seem appropriate when you have enough business!

[Spyrotechnics]

For what its worth I would say 15% is closer to the mark.

Other than the points Arthur raised about training and experience the insurance is basically based n your estimated annual turnover specifically for displays i.e put simply, higher turnover = more displays = more risk = higher premium

[Arthur Brown]

The quantity of risk is dependant on the sheer value of your display turnover (or estimated in the first business year), the quality of the risk is dependant on the insurers appreciation of your own ability to work safely. This you can affect greatly by training, and experience etc. this is where you can gain great value from formal courses and log booked assistance experience where you assist a firing company to gain experience.

IMO Starsky's 15% is for an established company with good insurance history. As an inexperienced startup expect to pay more in the first year til you have a positive history.

[pyrotrev]

The other thing to consider is that most insurers have a minimum insurable turnover, generally in the region of £15...25K. So if you're only doing a couple of small shows a year it's a bugger, tell me about it.

[Arthur Brown]

Realistically this is the big hurdle for startup businesses. Insurance is expensive if you have no history, and expensive if you have no business yet.

[David]

Do they cover public liability, product liability, or both?

IE would the insurance cover you if half your stock for the evening failed to fire?

[Spyrotechnics]

IE would the insurance cover you if half your stock for the evening failed to fire?

but those are not YOUR products, those are the products of your suppliers, so your claim as such would be with them

[David]

but those are not YOUR products, those are the products of your suppliers, so your claim as such would be with them

Is that how it works? I don't know. I notice Great Northern do mention "Public and Product Liability." I'm not exactly sure of the distinction.

One I looked at did not offer any insurance cover in the event that the products failed or commercial losses as the result of cancellation etc.