65 replies to this topic

[rocketboy]

At last the industry might get back to what it was several years ago when the manufacturers/importers made a profit.
If discount levels had remained at a reasonable level then the fluctuation in the dollar rate would not have been felt as badly as it has been.

I don't know if anyone else has noticed but with the high discount we have also had a reduction in the performance and quality of fireworks, most of the supermarket BOGOF ranges of selection boxes are nothing more than a few fountains glued into oversize casings to fill the box.

Hopefully some good will come out of the current climate and it will not signal the demise of the firework industry.

[David]

As far as I see it a lot of the repercussions we see now are a result of what Men Shun did in the early days.


Most companies would offer a fair discount to wholesalers and they in turn gave a fair deal to retailers....

Then we saw the likes of MS offering stupid discounts to wholesale in an attempt to cut in on the market, now wholesalers EXPECT 50% - 60% as a matter of course and with that in place we saw the massive upsurge in BOGOF lines. Weren't PANDA in 2007 offering something like trade less 75%.

The only people who benefitted were the retail customers, every one else in the food chain had to tighten belts and as a result some companies are now suffering.

Excellent point- and well made too.

However, I disagree that retail customers benefitted, as Men Shun at full RRP is , with occassional exceptions, very very poor value for money.

As such Men Shun at HALF PRICE is (and this is a rough comparison only) about as good as certain other brands at FULL PRICE (give or take.)

EG something one brand might do for £25 RRP Men Shun might do at £50 RRP.

With heavily dioscounted/buy one free consumer goods it is always prudent to be aware that the RRP is in many cases designed to take into account the discounts. IE- it's inflated.

Edited by David, 08 May 2009 - 12:39 PM.

[David]

most of the supermarket BOGOF ranges of selection boxes are nothing more than a few fountains glued into oversize casings to fill the box.

Too true.

If Tesburies sold dog muck on buy one get one free the English lower middel class would be queueing up to buy it.

Edited by David, 08 May 2009 - 12:39 PM.

[TGR]

Too true.

If Tesburies sold dog muck on buy one get one free the English lower middel class would be queueing up to buy it.

They do....have you never tried their VALUE baked beans

and yes to some extent I agree with David.....quality has gone down, but not all of this is due to cost-cutting. Let's not forget that powder limits and flash-powder constraints have hit hard. i mean , what can you expect from a 20g rocket


whhhhoooooooooooooooooshhhh...........................phutttttt

How many retailers can afford to stock 1.3 ??? How many suppliers can deliver 1.3 cost effectively and keep their customers topped up in the season? How many want to use pyro-mesh??? Bottom line is firework effects have gone down, in reality not practical to offer the kind of fireworks we all remember. Was chatting with HSE on wednesday and conversation turned towards how we will see more and more PUBLIC displays and less of a demand for GARDEN use. I disagreed with this on the grounds that people get a "kick" out of setting off their own fireworks and why should someone pay £5 to get access to a large public display when they can sit in the field opposite and watch it for free.

Interesting times ahead this year.

[David]

I disagreed with this on the grounds that people get a "kick" out of setting off their own fireworks

Exactly.

People enjoy buying and using fireworks privatly.

Personally, I don't greatly enjoy public displays- I have nothing against them, but its just ... not the same thing.

Its like I enjoy cookery at home , but don't like going to restaurants. Same principle.

[Firework Crazy]

More public displays hey?

So why is it that many are not going ahead this year?

Problem with public displays is they are weather dependant, take last year as an example. A couple of years of weather like that on the trot and the losses would be so severe they wouldn't bother!

Not good news about blackcat. I do wonder what's going to happen there. It's strange that you say they've made the sales team redundant, and the fact that they are not bringing in any more this year.

They sold a lot of stock off at the begining of the year, would you do this if you were not bringing any more in?

Something's not right. I hope they don't dissapear completely, there a brand that is a fond memory of mine and i'm sure many other's childhoods.

As for Panda. Panda was sold at a case price. There was no discount.

[David]

I hope they don't dissapear completely, there a brand that is a fond memory of mine and i'm sure many other's childhoods.

I can't see them folding completely, given that they are opperational in the USA and China too- but who knows?

And they own the Standard brand, of course- although the "real" Standard (as it was) is gone now.

[cpfireworks]

The thing is with Blackcat their fireworks business is only a small % of their overall business worldwide. The parent company sells lots of different things i think their main business is in the clothing sector. So it would not be a suprise to see them pull out of fireworks.
Also their parent company Li & Fung launched a share rights thingy whatsit on the 5/5/2009 http://202.66.146.82...ess/p090505.pdf

Edited by cpfireworks, 10 May 2009 - 06:31 AM.

[David]

Also their parent company Li & Fung launched a share rights thingy whatsit on the 5/5/2009 http://202.66.146.82...ess/p090505.pdf

Just means that want to raise some more capital, doesn't really indicate they are struggling as such.

[concept]

If Blackcat are in financial trouble then it may not all be bad news (at least for people who want to see some British fireworks produced again). The parent company Li & Fung will want to raise as much capital as they can for their UK firework assets; this would probably include any remaining stock, the standard brand name and the crosland hill site. It's not beyond the realms of possibity that some one or a group of investors could buy up the site and brand same and make some "proper" standard fireworks again. Possibly the factory could be sold for housing, but the brand name could be saved by kimbolton or another British owned company; who at least would bring back the classics. None of this is reality but its nice to think what could happen .

[Manchester Fireworks]

It was the end of last year when they got rid of the black cat reps and since then they have been a bit disorganised for ordering stock.

The prices have gone up by arround 20% and their is no new products for 2009.

I am still waiting for a new 2009 cat with new prices in but for ordering i have to pay a more expensive price.

Edited by Manchester Fireworks, 19 May 2009 - 02:01 PM.

[David]

The prices have gone up by arround 20% and theit in no new products for 2009.

I am still waiting for a new 2009 cat with new prices in but for ordering i have to pay a more expensive price.

Perhaps one to give a miss then?

Personally I've never greatly been impressed with Black Cat- nothing wrong with it, for sure, but nothing really stood out in the range, either.

[Mixologist]

Black Cat HPP range was really good a few years back!

[TGR]

Black Cat HPP range was really good a few years back!

A lot of fireworks were good a few years back - until the authorities started meddling with flash limits and powder weights

[Manchester Fireworks]

Black cat still do a few good cakes mainly the grand finale and colossus just a shame they have no new ones for this year