40 replies to this topic

[Aussie Pyro King]

Did any of you see the page on United Nuclear on torpedoes? I think it may be down now but luckily i saveed it

They make them from 50% Potassium Chlorate and 50%Antimony Sulfide so there is no need for phosphorus.

Jared

[dfk]

Ausie Pyro King,

You might want to watch what you post on this forum not only for the saftey of others but for the saftey of your acount, I got hassled for even offering to post a similar comp.

The more you look, the more you find that this forum is directed to discusion of the art of pyro and not about things that just pop.
as was discused before, this is a dangerous comp and dangerous device especialy for beginers even though theres no phosphorus in it. As Big G stated before torpedo factories require high explosives licencse to manufacture these devices because of the sensitivity and energy of this mix.

To be honest Im the last one to want to get on anyones case about posts or info posted but to make a short story long just becareful because you never know whos hands this info will end up in and what they are capable of doing or hurting.

Marcus

[Steve]

I remember reading something in Davis's book on puting yellow phosphorus in the head of a rocket, so it get set fire to with the burst, and gives an interesting "liquid fire" effect.
Don't actually ma.. etc etc

Steve

[alany]

You might want to watch what you post on this forum not only for the saftey of others but for the saftey of your acount, I got hassled for even offering to post a similar comp.

You know, I have an issue with that policy here.

I believe it is best to actually talk about it and discuss the dangers, rather than see some poor idiot read John Donner's book, ignore its warnings, and hurt themselves because of a lack of understanding. People will find 'dangerous' compositions, if not here in more dubious sources, knowledge and understanding is their only defence.

I am not saying this forum should detail the synthesis of primary high explosives or anything like that, the scope here is purely deflagarants, but if the topic comes up (say like Picric acid, which has several times before) then the reply should not be "we don't talk about that here" or "your post/account has vanished naughty, naughty!". Rather I'd like to see "Picric acid is sensitive a high explosive which has little use in modern fireworks devices, its synthesis is not overly dangerous when done correctly, but it can form very unstable compounds on contact with metals or their ions in solution, as such it is not something you should attempt synthesis of or consider using it. There are generally better ways of achieving desired effect..."

When something like torpedeo or phosphorous compositions (or any other composition capable of easy DDT) comes up the discussion should be frank and honest. We do it about flash all the time, why is cap or torpedo composition so different?

Maybe it all belongs more in a FAQ than as a policy of post deletion? Post deletion seems the worst solution, as it removes more information than it preserves for future readers, even if it is followed up by a note describing why. That said, the current system is working and is applied with common sense by the moderators.

All just my opinion anyway. I understand the motivation for the current policies, but I guess I am just an academic at heart who likes to see full disclosure because historically it has generally lead to better outcomes.

As I don't own or pay for this forum's hosting I will just abide by the current and future policy, it is the cost of participation and something we all weigh up with the value of this resource when we choose to participate.

[Stuart]

I agree. I feel that UK Rocketry does sometimes go over the top a little.

Edited by Stuart, 28 January 2004 - 09:18 PM.

[The_Djinn]

Stuart, I don?t really agree.
Various forums have different rules or guidelines as to what is posted for a variety of reasons which at the end of the day some will or will not agree with fully.
I noted from early on that discussions related to HE and formulas related to HE were a topic that was steered clear of due to the nature of discussion on this forum and the legal issues related to our hobby in the UK.
The main idea is not to attract the wrong kind of attention from authorities or otherwise which I am sure pay visits to this forum due to the fact that no matter what you search for on the web or which search engine you use, seems to have an uncanny habit of appearing within the first page of listings if not within the first few lines even.
If a users posts something related to HE and it is not nipped in bud the link will continue into open discussion on HE and formulas related to it.
There is also times where a user posts a formula that can be used for either pyro or HE and another user could respond that it is not a topic discussed possibly due to lack of knowledge of the particular formula being posted or question and may purely be responding from his / her own experience from posting something that may have appeared to be similar which had been halted.

People have been very quick to have a go about rules on this link but at this point I notice non of the admin have commented about the initial post being out of line, only users.
On past links where something has been a little dubious, admin have reacted swiftly to keep the topic within the bounds of the forum yet this link is now 5 days on from the initial post .

Mark

PS: just another thought, why is this being discussed in this link? If anyone has any grieviances with the way the forum operates, surely there are more suitable links for this discussion to take place.

... okay, I will get of my soap box now before one of you sets it alight.

Edited by The_Djinn, 28 January 2004 - 10:42 PM.

[alany]

People have been very quick to have a go about rules on this link but at this point I notice non of the admin have commented about the initial post being out of line, only users.

If anything that shows the moderators have everyone scared.

I guess that isn't really a bad thing.

[Richard H]

I'm afraid some of you have got the wrong end of the stick. If you care to read the forum rules:

"Posts should be relevent to rocketry or pyrotechnics, topics outside the scope of this forum include high explosives, or any kind of discussion of pyrotechnics with criminal intent. "

We have no problem with the discussion of anything which may be considered as 'pyrotechnic', which I guess does include torpedoes. I just don't see the fascination with such dangerous compounds and devices that require little skill (in one sense! and an awful lot in another!) to produce. I also agree that education is the best form of prevention, as too little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

However I strictly draw the line at the boundaries of HE, because quite frankly if you thought that pyrotechnics is taboo, then HE is a whole different league.

[The_Djinn]

If anything that shows the moderators have everyone scared.

I guess that isn't really a bad thing.

People have been very quick to have a go about rules on this link but at this point I notice non of the admin have commented about the initial post being out of line, only users.

Alany,

Just to clarify this quote as after reading it again it does not come across the way intended..

What I was trying to say is that the admin had not said anything up to this point to say the initial post was out of line, whereas it came across as if I was stating that it was out of line.

Mark

[tajmiester]

To be quite honest these topics that consist of nothing but pure political correctness and argument for the sake of it are becomming a tad dull. Could we not return to the initial point of this thread?

Please!

[Richard H]

Yes, just what I was thinking! It's getting very tiresome and pedantic.

[Steve]

Mabey we could use the BPS pyro forum for 'Discuassion without mindless safty detailing'. As i've also noticed a lot of political correctlness posting, people holding back on information incase someone acted apon it. As for others i can't speak but i love reading into and researching the old fashioned methods for firework manufacture, and how things were done in the 'olden days' when they hap-hasidly mixed chlorate's and sulphur withought knowledge. It's a shame we cannot discuss old manufacture methods as a comparison during normal discussion. - I'm sure i'm not alone.

Steve

[Richard H]

It's a shame we cannot discuss old manufacture methods as a comparison during normal discussion.

Why? I have pretty much said it is OK in the above post. However I still think that emphisis must be on safety and hazards presented by particular compositions.

[BurlHorse]

Well, United nuclear, Desert Blast or whatever they may be calling themselves this month, have an uncanny nack for making info and materials available, some of which are not in the nearest realm of pyrotechnia, especially on the "Hobbyist" level. Seems to me that they should decide weather they want to be in the business of nuclear physics or pyrotechnics........Selling Urainyl Acetate on the web should give most folks a clue, however I digress and will say that the free exchange of information is a constitutional right, however that right doesnt mean it's "right".

Hmmmmm, Potassium Chlorate and Antimony Sulphide, let me think of the numerous possibilities that compound can produce.. ......OK I'm Done, all of them were BAD.

All the common knowledge, albeit somewhat outdated regarding Sulfer, (Which Sulphides, especially sulphides of metals include) and chlorates is well known. Add to that that Antimony trisuphide is a sensitizer to most comps.

While I have in fact manufactured items that had chlorates and antimony in them, I also did sensitivity tests, ya want your foot to hurt for awhile spill that comp on the floor and "Brush it away" or slide your foot across it on a hard surface.....it does detonate, it will hurt you and it is poisonous.....

Nuf Said, Stay Green, Not charcoal grey,

Bear

[bobconan]

Detergents contain phosphates right? Ive been wondering if simple things like tide or just hand soap could one day do me in. Ive been using alcohol to rinse everything off tho. There a nice hillbilly that gives me a rate. Denatured is so damn expencive(4 dollars a quart)