28 replies to this topic

[peanutbutter]

hello all,
i am looking for some information about making my own Bp. i have all the ingredients, Kn03, sulpher and charcoal. i dont have a ball mill, i have read loads of information but all aimed at experts.
i have a pestle and morter and a lot of patience. if i ground the ingredients sepreatly, and mix together through a sieve, this will give me poor quallity Bp, is this right? could this be used to make a fire cracker? or is it not sufficent? if you add rubbing alcahol ( all i could get was surgical spirit, is there that much diffrence?) if i make a past then push it through a sieve will it improve the quality?, once it dries as hard balls can you then grind it again, does a powder burn better or worse than granuals? if i ground the powder again and repeat the alcahol will it produce better quality bp, i dont really want to heat it up and i dont have a ball mill, any help would be greatly appreaciated, Thanks

[pyromaniac303]

To make decent fast blackpowder in a mortar and pestle you need to keep batch sizes very low, for an average sized mortar and pestle 5-10g is plenty, so you also need scales capable of weighing to 0.1g or greater accuracy.

If you grind the ingredients seperately and screen through a sieve you get something called greenmix, which is a very slow blackpowder. To speed it up the ingredients must be ground together so that the potassium nitrate granules incorporate into the tiny holes and pores in the charcoal.

After the powders are thoroughly ground, a small pile will still burn quite slowly as it burns from the outside towards the middle, so to speed things up you granulate by adding a couple of percent binder such as dextrin, then add water until you get something resembling dry clay, where it just begins to clump.

Grate this through a screen to obtain tiny BP grains called pulverone, which burn quite consistantly, and due to the much larger surface area compared to the pile you burnt earlier they will burn much faster.

Also worth noting that briquette charcoal is useless, as is most lumpwood. To get anywhere near commercial speed blackpowder you want to use willow, alder, white pine, grapevine and I think there are some other unusual charcoals people use, but willow seems to be the standard here.

[peanutbutter]

Thanks that was very helpfull,
i just have some more questions, i have read that if you "cook" cornflour in an oven it will turn to somthing like dextrin, if not what is a good substitute, where could i purchase this, also , you do not metion alcahol, do i need to ad this , i am aiming for a quick burning powder, also i have got charcoal from the Garden centre, for putting into the soil, this is already ground quite fine, is this sutible, how else can i make fast powders, as you understand i was very dissapointed with my sodium chlorate powder, as it did not burn well, i would like my bp to be much better, thanks again

[Mortartube]

Here's the most boring video in the world, but it will show you how to make dextrin.

Cornflour is used (Called cornstarch in the USA)

[pyromaniac303]

I'm not sure what type of wood that charcoal is, it is most likely activated charcoal which I've heard is quite slow. If you use the search function there are quite a few topics on making charcoal, but if you think it sounds too complicated or messy there are also a few suppliers that will see you good quality willow charcoal suitable for making BP.

Alcohol is only used for the CIA method, but I havent used this. I do often add 25-35% alcohol to the water used to bind the BP into granules, but this is only so it dries faster and slightly reduces surface tension (helps it to incorporate better when you pour it in). It is not neccessary really and just adds extra cost.

[mike_au]

i was very dissapointed with my sodium chlorate powder

What do you mean by sodium chlorate powder? You aren't substituting sodium chlorate into a black powder composition are you? NaClO3 reacts with sulfur and will make the composition extremely sensitive to shock and friction, it can also lead to spontaneous ignition.

Sodium chlorate is also quite hygroscopic (it will absorb moisture from the air), it isn't really used in pyrotechnics except as a precursor to making potassium chlorate or sodium perchlorate (which is then converted to potassium perchlorate).

[Arthur Brown]

Trying to make BP without the knowledge that would come from reading the forum thoroughly or reading at least one of the promoted text books is a gross waste of resources and time.

Trying to make BP with chlorate is an attempt at doing a Darwin. It is so dangerous that whole proper explosives factories have exploded killing hundreds.

Fortunately for you, the chlorate found retail is heavily treated with fire depressant so your attempts at killing yourself and your neighbours may be frustrated.

Please do some serious research in real books by respected authors (Lancaster, Davis, Matiz for a start) before you make mixtures. I suggest that you spend weeks just searching and reading on the forum before you do further experiments. One bang at the wrong time or place and you have caused injury to person or property.

Please be very careful.

[Greenman]

Some people seems to succeed getting fast BP with newspaper charcoal. They claim no ballmilling is needed to get lift-like quality, which would be sufficiently fast for your bangers. I have personally never tried this, but can anyone confirm this is a myth? Or is it really something to go for?

For beginners without mills it would be rather interesting. I am aware that there are some topics on the subject, but i post this with the intent of helping our fellow pyro without ball mill.

As stated, proceed with great caution. Pyro is hobby that doesn't let you a first chance.

Edited by Greenman, 27 May 2009 - 10:28 AM.

[mike_au]

Some people seems to succeed getting fast BP with newspaper charcoal. They claim no ballmilling is needed to get lift-like quality, which would be sufficiently fast for your bangers. I have personally never tried this, but can anyone confirm this is a myth? Or is it really something to go for?

I've heard similar claims, I've also heard claims that rcandy can rival black powder. Personally I think the people making the claims have never seen good black powder.

Paper varies too much to be reliable, I'm sure some paper charcoal is great (I doubt it is so great that it doesn't need milling) but another batch from the same brand could come from a different factory and be completely hopeless. I think that if someone is just starting out the last thing they need is more variables.

If they stick with wood, even if their charcoal isn't great at least it is consistent. From there they can work out how long they need to mill, how to granulate, etc to get maximum performance from what they have. Then they can go track down better charcoal (or start messing with various papers).

[peanutbutter]

Thanks to everyone for there help, i have bought my charcoal from the garden centre and i will now use it as i have now recived by Kno3 today, do most people who make this, buy there charcoal pre ground, surly the fun is not only in the use of making bp, i have found it to be fun and a challenge to make it, making the charcoal etc, i understand you get a better consisstency by using a ball mill but surely it is more fun and instresting to do it by hand ?, thanks every one, i will now go and make some bp

also i asked about making dextrin, is this needed, does it improve the mixture, i cannot watch the videos on youtube, i have dial up , anyones explanation would be usefull
also if i press the bp through a fine sieve will this produce the best granuale size, if not what is the best size? Thanks

[digger]

surely it is more fun and instresting to do it by hand ?

You will soon get bored of the blisters and the time required to make a few grams.

[peanutbutter]

Thanks everyone, i have just made by Bp , well actually its polverone, green powder, i cannot seem to get the consistency to push it through the sieve, i am in the prosses of making some dextrin, also the sieve is to fine, i would like to know what the best size is of granuals, i tested my polverone and it burns ok, reasonably quick, i dont know what speed to tell you. i know it should leave very little residue, it leaves a small blob of left over sulpher, is that normal, any help would be great, Thanks

[Bonny]

Thanks everyone, i have just made by Bp , well actually its polverone, green powder, i cannot seem to get the consistency to push it through the sieve, i am in the prosses of making some dextrin, also the sieve is to fine, i would like to know what the best size is of granuals, i tested my polverone and it burns ok, reasonably quick, i dont know what speed to tell you. i know it should leave very little residue, it leaves a small blob of left over sulpher, is that normal, any help would be great, Thanks

If you are making pulverone/rough powder you will need dextrin to hold the grains together. The grain size depends on what you are going to use it for. If well made, a SMALL pile of powder when tested should should be gone in an instant "WHOOMP".
Do a lot of reading on the many BP threads here and you should find all the info you need.

[50AE]

Some people seems to succeed getting fast BP with newspaper charcoal. They claim no ballmilling is needed to get lift-like quality, which would be sufficiently fast for your bangers. I have personally never tried this, but can anyone confirm this is a myth? Or is it really something to go for?

You can make a great black powder using only a mortar and pestle. But as the person above me said, "You will soon get bored of the blisters and the time required to make a few grams."

I have a "how to" black powder video with a mortar and pestle. I recommend it mostly to beginners, who'd like to discover the pyrotechnics before buying serious tooling (eg. ball mill).

But forget about advancing in pyrotechnics without the ball mill.

[peanutbutter]

Thanks, everyone has been so helpfull, i am getting broadband in aprox. 2 weeks so i will ask less questions because i will watch the vids, thanks i have ground my powder again it is the consistency of fine flour, and my dextrin is " cooked" yesterday i added water to my bp to push it through a sieve bu it was either to runny or to powdery, by adding the dextrin it went to the consistency of wet clay, great, i pushed it through a fine sive to fine i think i am going to buy athicker sieve tomorrow, what size balls of bp would you recoment for use in a firecracker? also i am using a fuse made with a rizzla filled with bp, any guidence on how to make a small firecracker would be helpfull, once i have made this, i would like to start making fountains, mini rockets etc, any help would be great

Edited by peanutbutter, 27 May 2009 - 08:53 PM.