28 replies to this topic

[pyromaniac303]

Thanks, everyone has been so helpfull, i am getting broadband in aprox. 2 weeks so i will ask less questions because i will watch the vids, thanks i have ground my powder again it is the consistency of fine flour, and my dextrin is " cooked" yesterday i added water to my bp to push it through a sieve bu it was either to runny or to powdery, by adding the dextrin it went to the consistency of wet clay, great, i pushed it through a fine sive to fine i think i am going to buy athicker sieve tomorrow, what size balls of bp would you recoment for use in a firecracker? also i am using a fuse made with a rizzla filled with bp, any guidence on how to make a small firecracker would be helpfull, once i have made this, i would like to start making fountains, mini rockets etc, any help would be great

For crackers approx 30 mesh is good (this means 30 of the particles if lined up will be about an inch long), using the triangle cracker/polumna method im guessing you could easily get away with 10 mesh though using good charcoal. The smaller they are, the greater the surface area and the more area burns at once. This makes the powder faster so the firecracker will give a sharper bang rather than just a pop. Smaller than 30 mesh you will have difficulty getting it to pass through the sieve, and I use a cheese grater for my larger sizes.

Bigger particles are used for lifting shells because they want a gentle push out of the mortar rather than being shot out like a cannon ball, so the powder burn rate can be controlled by which sieve you use to granulate it.

An alternative to struggling and forcing it through a small sieve is to make larger particles, allow them to dry fully then crush them and then pass them through a finer sieve until they are all at the grade required.

Edited by pyromaniac303, 27 May 2009 - 10:30 PM.

[Arthur Brown]

Can I please suggest that you sit quietly at home til broadband comes to you, THEN you can have good access to the forum and you can sit and read very carefully. EVERY question you ask is answered here already. The whole point of an internet forum is to have an archive of information that people can use for a long time. -Also please use the search function. It is like ebay -meaning that careful choice of search terms will get you carefully chosen results.

Fireworks Principles and Practice (ISBN: 0820603546 / 0-8206-0354-6)
Lancaster, Ronald; Butler, Roy E.A.; Lancaster, J. Mark; Shimizu, Takeo

Is an essential PURCHASE, (try Abebooks dot (your country) ) Get a hard copy book from regarded and respected authors so that you are confident of the provenance of the data.

Edited by Arthur Brown, 28 May 2009 - 06:44 AM.

[sir steve]

3

[sir steve]

3 minute meal BP.

I made 500g of lift powder today took 30 minutes. ( sorry for you who like to ball mill for

[sir steve]

Posted to the UK Pyrotechnic society.

1 lb of lift powder in 30 minutes.

You will need:

Fine crystal " soluble" KN03, 50 cents a kilo. from the co-op
( 99% ) pure.
Saudi scrubbed sulphur, also 50c. a kilo.
Very fine willow charcoal. great fun to make yourself. or buy.
A blade mill like the old Mulinex coffee mill.
One pint of Old English cyder.

Method:

Place 50g KNO3, 10g willow, 10g sulphur in the blade mill.
Retire to a safe distance and whiz for 3 minutes, pause half way
to allow the powder to settle and cool down.

Repeat 7 times. Sieve all 7 batches together that´s meal powder.

Oh you drink the cyder, thirsty work pyro.


Lift Powder. (Passes the PGI golf ball test). Damp the meal and
push through a 12 mesh screen.
Sun dry, most important is then to sieve out the fines.

It really is that simple.



Sir Steve.

[Arthur Brown]

I have to say that using a blender to mix BP sounds more dangerous than more traditional methods.

The usual pyro use for a blender is milling single ingredients.

[mike_au]

I have heard of blending BP before, but I was of the impression it was done as a slurry.

Blending it dry sounds like a really bad idea.

[Arthur Brown]

Professionally made BP is blended to ensure consistency between batches*. The variability of a product made with naturally variable charcoal needs to be reduced, so that ballistic accuracy is possible. This is very different from making BP in a blender. Pro BP also needs the pressure incorporation caused by the wheel mill and the puck pressing process.

* A batch that comes out fast and a batch that comes out slower than the specification may be mixed in the proportions needed to produce an in-spec batch. Always slower than maximum but always consistent.

[mike_au]

Actually, I was thinking of this:

http://www.apcforum....amp;#entry48443

I'm not sure this method is a great idea either, but it seems a lot better than doing it dry.

[sir steve]

I have heard of blending BP before, but I was of the impression it was done as a slurry.

Blending it dry sounds like a really bad idea.

I have blended several replies to answer them:

Conventional wisdom can be a very dangerous thing. The question you must ask
is what is the
worst thing that can happen. In this case 100g of meal powder explodes in
the blade mill ( not a blender ).
If you are doing this in the kitchen when mum is out you may qualify for
next years Darwin award. 25 yard away
behind an earth bearm no consequence at all. The fact is it is not going to
blow up unless the charcoal
has grit in it. A good reason to make it yourself or buy willow expressly
made for BP manufacture.

> have heard of blending BP before, but I was of the impression it was done
> as a slurry.
>Blending it dry sounds like a really bad idea.

>Pro BP also needs the pressure incorporation caused by the wheel mill and
>the puck pressing process.

This is an urban myth. The process I described produces lift once for once
equivalent to Commercial fff powder.
it is softer of course but that does not really matter.

Steve

[Creepin_pyro]

25 yard away behind an earth bearm no consequence at all.

Apart from an earth-shakingly loud explosion in your backgarden : )

I do agree with you about the myths surrounding making 'pro' BP though. People often get a bit carried away trying to make the fastest powder on earth, when all we actually need is something that is capable of lifting stuff.

The amateur need not worry about corning/pressing pucks when riced BP will more than suffice in terms of power.

[sir steve]

[quote name='Creepin_pyro' date='Jun 11 2009, 03:06 PM' post='56918']
Apart from an earth-shakingly loud explosion in your backgarden : )

More like a large whump. In these parts we throw an m80 into the street every time Valencia gets a goal. The pyro golf. This is a test invented many years ago by the PGI to stop bitching on the lines ofmy BP is better than yours. A 10" mortar that just fits a golf ball is loaded with 4 or 5g powder.Bang and time the ball in the air: 8 seconds is good but 10s is possible. I agree with you such powder is too fast for a lot of pyro applications. 5:1:1 pine oftenis ok and at 1 euro a kilo. steve.
I think we need a smiley face of Achmed the dead terrorist for unsafe posts

[Bonny]

This is an urban myth. The process I described produces lift once for once
equivalent to Commercial fff powder.
it is softer of course but that does not really matter.

Steve

I partly disagree with this as softer grains IMO opinion do matter. If the grains are too soft, depending on the handling of the item, they can be reduced to finer powder, losing the very important consistancy.

[pyrotechnist]

What is with the topics I see all over the place on people trying to make the worlds fastest black powder to beat joe blog down the road? Come on people we aint entering our black powder into the bloody Olympics are we now? It seems to me that a lot of people are making fireworks solely to beat someone else at the game in speed wise. Dam I can get shit thrown together black powder to make a big bang if confined correctly and also send a small shell in the air at a bloody good height by using the correct compression (a cardboard disk.. hint... hint). Black powder that burns faster than the eye can blink is great and all but seriously what use does it have? no one is trying to replace flash here with black powder, impossible.

To the original poster just make your black powder in a safe manner and keep it simple, by that I mean do not go all out grinding it for hours on end or buying a ball mill etc etc etc. Meal powder riced is perfectly suitable for crackers, lifting shells, mines, roman candles, fountains (use meal for these), fuse (meal for these to) and the likes.

This post isn't aimed at anyone and anyone who is offended is one of the people who like to show off by making the next 'best thing' in terms of black powder and so I say to you people keep on with the hard work while the ones who stay simple can make a large load of fireworks in the time your black powder is being prepared that work just as good if not better at times . Fireworks are an art form and a beautiful one as that and shouldn't be turned into a competition so come on people lets get back to the experimentation, creativity, design and fun that make fireworks what they are.