273 replies to this topic

[Mumbles]

Yeah, actually to tell you the truth, it does look more similar to some strobe formulas than it does to to whistle formulas. Still quite a bit removed however.

Edited by Mumbles, 05 October 2007 - 03:21 AM.

[MDH]

Ahhh! I hate you bastards!

What's this non disclosure agreement mumbles is under?

Come on, tell me how! Tell me how!...

It's not copper gluconate whistle, is it?

[portfire]

I have a formula for it. Due to some promises I made, I can't give it out though.

As you see he made promises,thats why he can't give it out.

What's this non disclosure agreement mumbles is under?

Most manufacturers are family run and the skills are past down from one gerneration to the next,and some have closely guarded formula,techniques etc.Antonio Zambelli for instance,came from italy in 1893 with a list of formula which is still kept in the company safe.Most are probably available today,you get the idea.It's a shame really that secrets are still kept but,thats just the way it is .

dean

Edited by portfire, 07 October 2007 - 10:36 AM.

[MMMMMM Pyro]

I'm really interested in this...

Is there any chance you could tell us what is in the whistle but not its proportions?
Would be really nice if you could.

Regards,

Mike

[Creepin_pyro]

I doubt we're going to get any more info from Mumbles, and quite understandably - I for one would not want to break a promise and release someone's formula after agreeing not to, just as Karl is not about to go releasing his formulas from Malta.

But a few more clues would be great : P

I've heard high-pitched, short-lived 'chirps' when playing around with variations on the GE silicone blue strobe formula and motor configurations. Never did much testing on it, but that might be a good starting point for formula development...

Possibly some of the Guanidine Nitrate/Tetramethylammonium Nitrate strobe formulas could be tweaked to whistle, but I have very little experience with them... for now.... Some of the Guanidine formulas do make really odd sounds!

[Mumbles]

To tell you the truth, I don't even know if it works. I really should give it a try sometime. I think I have everything, or at least the means to make everything. After that I'll come back and tease you guys some more.

[alex000]

Joel Baechle's 'Pyrocolour Harmony' has a section on coloured gerbs. The following link was posted on Passfire not long ago, and mentions Baechle's text:

http://paraphysics.c...sswick_gerb.jpg

This should give you a good idea of what kind of star compositions work best. If you're going to try using other star formulas in gerbs, I would look for ones with coarse metal of some kind. Make sure you press, NOT ram - no coloured star/gerb composition should be rammed.

I cant source Red Gum does any one know of a good substitute or when i can buy it? Thank you

[Bonny]

I cant source Red Gum does any one know of a good substitute or when i can buy it? Thank you

Skylighter sells it and you can sometimes find it on ebay. Look for yacca resin.

[alex000]

Skylighter sells it and you can sometimes find it on ebay. Look for yacca resin.

Thanks, after registering with skylighter I found out that postage is very high, but I googled accroides resin and found Chemicalslab sell it at a good price.

[NorCalPyro]

I've read through this thread and have a couple of questions related to manufacturing fountains. I apologize in advance if this is the wrong thread Admin.

I've been making fountains lately with some nice success. A couple of things are unclear to me and I could use some help.

Some folks seem to be ramming comps which include metal such as Fe and Al. Is this acceptable? I have done this with Fe and Al but am now thinking this is a bad idea.....

With comps that can be rammed, how do you know how hard to ram? Is it possible to ram and compact too much and to degrade performance?

Will a hand operated arbor press (1 Ton) give sufficient force to press fountains?

Final question, can anyone recomend a good book on fountain construction and compositions?

Thanks for the help.

[GZ22]

Yes, it is possible to ram a composition too much, and performance can be severely affected. This is known as 'dead pressing'.

[seymour]

Unless you are replicating Clarks Giant Steel Fountain, a one ton Arbor press should be fine.

As for Ramming fountains, especially containing metals, there is always a risk, and in the end it is up to you to decide what risk is acceptable, and what is unacceptable. The risk is highest with hard, sparking metals; Fe, Ti and MgAl are all among the most dangerous to Ram, and even pressing with these can be dangerous.

In Lancaster's Principals and Practice He describes a case where 500g of BP with a high percentage of Ti was being pressed, and it exploded, killing the worker. He also states that by using less than 8% Ti significant safety gains can be made. I can assure you, even 3% Ti makes a spectacular fountain.

Also important is the type of powder, Titanium sponge is safer than flake, and Atomised powders are also generally safer than flake. I personally am quite comfortable ramming BP based compositions containing -325# atomised Al, but would not feel comfortable ramming the same composition containing Dark flake.

If a fountain you are ramming does ignite, I'm sure you will be more interested in minimising burns, than what metal it contained. A minimum of eye protection, long sleves (cotton or other natural fibres) and gloves (also natural fibres or leather, NOT latex!!!!) should be worn.

[NorCalPyro]

Seymour and GZ22: Thanks for the feedback.

I have been using leather welding gloves, cotton clothes and full face shield when ramming. If I understand correctly the greatest risk is ignition of the comp rather than an explosion. Is this generally correct? When does an an explosion become more likely? (I'd like to stay far, far away from that!) I am dedicated to minimizing risk. Pyro is fun, but.....

I've stayed away from Ti though I do have some Fe/Ti. Seems like it is best to press this rather than ram it. Any advice/safety suggestions on using Fe/Ti in a fountain would be appreciated.

GZ22: How do you know if you have "dead pressed" a fountain?

[seymour]

An explosion is more likely the case with pressing, because with ignition the rammer is not able to be projected from the tube and becomes an end plug. The case Lancaster describes was also using a steel casing to provide support for the cardboard tube, and this combined with the lack of a blast shield turned the explosion fatal.

As long as your rammer is not tight fitting in the tube, an explosion is unlikely to result from accidental ignition. With ramming, explosions generally result from use of compositions, such as whistle, flash and other (per)chlorate compositions, which of course should never be rammed! That is not to say an explosion from the ignition of metal containing BP being rammed cannot, or has not occurred, but merely that it is unlikely.

I would also like to add that although I am happy ramming compositions containing atomised Al, I do not recommend that others do it. I am sure it carries a significantly greater risk than ramming plain BP, Which as Paul knows, can ignite while ramming!

[GZ22]

If you have 'dead pressed' a foutain composition, the results will be obvious to you, as the material will be so densely packed that it becomes extremely difficult to ignite, and once ignited it will burn very slowly.