14 replies to this topic

[GreenGenie]

What is the policy on this with the forum? I replied to a thread asking for information on where to buy Ammonium Perchlorate and I was happy to help. I was grateful to be able to help someone else as it is usually me doing the asking. The information must have incurred the disapproval of the elders of the group as it was quickly removed.

Sourcing the necessary chemicals is one of the larger challenges. Without the availability of the necessary chemicals there is nothing to talk about on this forum. I have been on the receiving end of much kindness and assistance from members of this group who have been very welcoming and forth coming in this regard as well as on matters of technical advice. A forum like this provides the opportunity to share this priceless information around the group. So what are the rules on this and the reasoning behind the rules?

I have most of the major chemicals needed but there are a surprising number of lesser chemicals used less frequently in compositions (Chemicals like copper benzoate and hexachlorobenzene.). Without these your opportunities are restricted. I would hope that the community might help me tracing some of these.

[Richard H]

Hello. I received a request from the supplier in question kindly asking that I remove the thread. There are no rules as such concerning such discussions, but if someone does not want their legitimate business discussing on the forum, then I have no issue removing it.

I do have a problem with people who have no understanding of the issues involved, who retail chemicals with little consideration to their packaging, transport, and the competency of the end user.

Does this help clarify the matter? This was by no means a pro-active decision on my part, only the reasonable request of the individual involved.

[GreenGenie]

That is strange because it was the supplier who contacted me about this. he certainly didn't give me the impression that he was displeased. Here is his email to me.

"I see you received your order. I trust everything is OK.

I was told you replied to a request for AP on the pyro forum, and then the thread was removed..!! This was because you posted my email address. I believe this is not allowed on that forum. (I guess to make sure everyone buys from their guys!) I was told all this by one of my buyers who is a regular on there."

[Richard H]

If that's the case, why did I receive the following message from a member here?

I have been asked by nick to ask you if you could remove his details from the forum (where to get amm perc in general chat) you can contact him to confirm, his details are in the offending post (obviously) I had previously asked him if he'd like a mention and he said he'd rather i didn't that's why i mentioned it to him when i saw it. He's a nice chap and a good supplier and we all need good suppliers!!!

Not sure I follow the comment "I guess to make sure everyone buys from their guys" ? Can you please explain the rational behind that? I am not in the business of retailing chemicals? The forum is run for the benefit of the pyro community, at personal expense to myself.

[GreenGenie]

It is strange. I post the message as I received it from the supplier. Clearly read together the two messages rather contradict each other. That is very odd.

I will contact the supplier and mention our conversation although its beginning to look as if sleeping dogs should be allowed to lie.

From what happened I wanted to know if there was a rule forbidding the publishing of suppliers on the forum.

Is it possible that your correspondent asked you to delete the thread for reasons of his own?

[Richard H]

I'm not going to get involved with this at any great length, I have no particular desire to be frank - unless I become compelled to do so. In answer to your question though, there is no rule forbidding the publishing of suppliers, unless you are the supplier in question and have no intentions of contributing anything here. The policies concerning advertising are well established.

[GreenGenie]

Thanks Richard

I can tell I have offended you. I certainly had no intention of offending anyone or stirring up any hornets nests. I am very grateful to the group for the kindness that they have shown me. I was surprised at what happened and wondered if I had blundered and broken a rule. I was asking for clarification.

All the best and keep up the good work!

[Richard H]

No offence taken. When things like this happen, it does wind me up a little, to the point of wondering why I bother sometimes. No matter , you haven't broken any rules and I don't have any issue with you seeking clarification. I am not in the business of removing threads because I don't like them or disagree with what is being said.

[GreenGenie]

No Problem Richard. Perhaps it would be for the best if this thread was removed now we have concluded our chat.

[Richard H]

I'm happy for it to stay. If Nick or anyone else wants to clarify the situation to me, I would be happy for them to do so.

[fruitfulsteve]

Just to clarify it was me that contacted nick and told him that his contact details we're on the forum and i asked him if he wanted me to ask Richard to remove them he said 'yes, i know their only trying to help but i don't really want my details on a public forum'. I have no interest in selling chemicals (allthough i do like to buy a few ) i was simply looking out for nick and as i had previously asked him if he would like a mention and he'd said no, i thought it best to bring it to his attention. Just thought i'd best clear that up!! Richard was simply doing what any decent administrator should taking action when/where necessary.

[fruitfulsteve]

Just to clarify it was me that contacted nick and told him that his contact details we're on the forum and i asked him if he wanted me to ask Richard to remove them he said 'yes, i know their only trying to help but i don't really want my details on a public forum'. I have no interest in selling chemicals (allthough i do like to buy a few ) i was simply looking out for nick and as i had previously asked him if he would like a mention and he'd said no, i thought it best to bring it to his attention. Just thought i'd best clear that up!! Richard was simply doing what any decent administrator should taking action when/where necessary.

Whilst i was writing the above post the 2 previous ones we're posted, i only type with one finger i've Emailed nick to ask him to set things straight!!

[GreenGenie]

Hi Steve

Since I've been doing pyro this has been the first firework to go off in my face. A classic intention of good intentions gone bad. My post was asking for clarification on wether it was forbidden to post suppliers details. Richard replied that my supplier had contacted him asking to remove the thread. I thought this rather surprising after reading my suppliers e-mail to me about this incident and also as a businessman myself I know that people in business rarely want their services kept a secret. A man who advertises on E-bay is probably not shy about a bit of good publicity.

Also I thought I was doing the members a favour. The members have been very kind to me and this seemed an opportunity to repay some of that kindness. I frequently see members asking for where to get certain chemicals and perchlorates are probably the most common request. I would have thought that helping members to locate the materials to pursue their hobby would be one of the duties of the site.

Things quickly got out of hand and it began to look as if this was turning into the oxbow incident. I began to think that it might have been better to let sleeping dogs lie and I now almost regret raising the issue although I do think as a general principal it needed clarification.

So I would like to apologise for any offense that my innocent question may have lead to. I do think an important question was asked but now it has developed into a minor public row I think it would be better if the thread was now deleted.

Best wishes to steve. I love the handle by the way; may you continue to remain fruitful.

[fruitfulsteve]

I never doubted that you posted with the best of intentions, and i'm sure most suppliers would be glad of the plug. I just happened to know (because i had asked him previously) that this one probably wouldn't. I wouldn't as a general rule post peoples contact details, but if for some reason i felt it was appropriate i would ask them first, just to check.
I would however like to point out that this is a public forum and posting details of where to get what for all intent and purpose are potentially lethal chemicals is in my opinion not a good idea, i know that if Mr ima lunatic wants to get hold of this type of stuff he most likley will but theirs no point making it easy!! If somebody did use stuff they had got via this forum to kill and maime this site would be shut down quicker than you could say 'thats not fair' But thats for admin to ponder. Personaly i would PM them if i was happy that they we're above board ( and i managed to work out how to PM )
Your right this did get a bit out of hand,i've spoken to nick and he said he'd contact you to set the record straight.
I'm glad you like the handle(it's actually part nickname)
Just one thing thou whats a OXBOW ?
All the best
steve

[StephF]

Just one thing thou whats a OXBOW ?

An oxbow is a geographical feature often seen in the course of rivers. A good example is how the course of the Thames loops out and almost comes back on its self.

If you look at the opening titles of "Eastenders" you can see a classic example of it.

I believe the derivation of the term comes from the U shaped collar that oxen used to wear to drag ploughs etc.