78 replies to this topic

[scientific.pyrotechnics]

The Chlorate prime is deleted.

Perchlorate and nitrate star prime:

Potassium Nitrate 80
Potassium Perchlorate 10
Red Gum 5
Sugar 5
Sulfur 5
Antimony(III)Sulfide 5
Silicon 7
Dextrin 5
Copper(II)Oxide 3

Edited by scientific.pyrotechnics, 01 July 2009 - 09:43 PM.

[Pretty green flames]

Both expensive and unnecessary. And I don't see why you put sugar in there.

For perchlorates and nitrates a basic BP formula with 10-15% Magnalium will light most stuff, and 10-15% silicon will light basicly anything. And chlorate stars light easily anyway, a couple layers of sulfurless BP with some metal should light them with no problems.

[digger]

Both expensive and unnecessary. And I don't see why you put sugar in there.

For perchlorates and nitrates a basic BP formula with 10-15% Magnalium will light most stuff, and 10-15% silicon will light basicly anything. And chlorate stars light easily anyway, a couple layers of sulfurless BP with some metal should light them with no problems.

Completely agree. I faffed about with all sorts of primes when I started out. Some better than others. Now I just use meal or sulphurless meal with 10% silicon for everything. I sometimes step prime particularly hard to light stars with a layer of 50% prime 50% comp. But that is it, I just keep it simple.

[pyrotrev]

Completely agree. I faffed about with all sorts of primes when I started out. Some better than others. Now I just use meal or sulphurless meal with 10% silicon for everything. I sometimes step prime particularly hard to light stars with a layer of 50% prime 50% comp. But that is it, I just keep it simple.

Me too - though I reckon a bit of extra KNO3 to help keep the oxygen balance up there helps too.

[scientific.pyrotechnics]

Both expensive and unnecessary. And I don't see why you put sugar in there.

For perchlorates and nitrates a basic BP formula with 10-15% Magnalium will light most stuff, and 10-15% silicon will light basicly anything. And chlorate stars light easily anyway, a couple layers of sulfurless BP with some metal should light them with no problems.

Why i put sugar in the comp? because sugar burns very hot.

Indeed it looks like you care more over you wallet than over your personal safety, Since none of these materials in this two primes can react bady with other elements
if you prime the Chlorate prime ONLY on the Chlorate stars and prime the Perchlorate/nitrate stars with it's prime,
but what do you think happend if you prime a wet star in a MgAl and nitrate prime? It will heat up and probably self ignite.

I rather pay some extra pounds if i know that my pyrotechnical devices are a bit safer than some MgAl /nitrate prime.

These primes are tested and works very well, they will ignite every star.

[scientific.pyrotechnics]

Me too - though I reckon a bit of extra KNO3 to help keep the oxygen balance up there helps too.

Everything is already tested and in powder form this prime burns very clean if the chemicals are fine powders, that is a sign of that all metals and hydrocarbons is oxidized to CO2,SO2,water and a couple of metallic oxides.

[portfire]

I've never heard of a MgAl-NO3 comp self igniting, (correct me if I'm wrong)the chances are very slim. In large batches maybe, but with the quantities we work with? If your worried, the only way is to coat the MgAl, Lancaster does mention that MgAl is attacked by week acids such as Boric, which really only helps to buffer the Al-NO3 reaction

I have to agree though, there a waste of chemicals IMO, but hey, if they work for you

[Mumbles]

It's on page 114, the mention of boric acid reacting with MgAl. I've always been rather suspect of this claim. I wet all of my stars, especially glitters (MgAl and Al) with boric acid solution, and have never had any sort of detrimental reaction. Even if it did, there is going to be no self-ignition. It takes some rather unique circumstances to ignite anything. The self-ignition temperature for most mixes is well over 250C.

I too wonder about the sugar. It seems unneccesary, as compared to charcoal. Sugar would tend to add some hygroscopicity. Charcoal also releases over twice the energy per gram. The formulas could obviously be cut down with no decrease in function, and probably actually be improved.

[Pretty green flames]

Why i put sugar in the comp? because sugar burns very hot.

Indeed it looks like you care more over you wallet than over your personal safety, Since none of these materials in this two primes can react bady with other elements
if you prime the Chlorate prime ONLY on the Chlorate stars and prime the Perchlorate/nitrate stars with it's prime,
but what do you think happend if you prime a wet star in a MgAl and nitrate prime? It will heat up and probably self ignite.

I rather pay some extra pounds if i know that my pyrotechnical devices are a bit safer than some MgAl /nitrate prime.

These primes are tested and works very well, they will ignite every star.

Nitrate/Magnalium self ignition? Seriously, i've made quite a bit of stars with these two mixed together (for example Winokur compositions, red and green metallic stars) and the only time I noticed some heating up was with Winokur#20 and that wasn't that dramatic, it stopped after 10 minutes. I traced this back to the sodium bicarb content and me not using a 1% boric acid solution to wet the composition. And if you're that paranoid about magnalium you can use Silicon instead of it, as mentioned in my previous post.

Anyway, I agree with Portfire, if they work for you...
And yes, I am not yet prepared to put a giant hole in my wallet for a task that is as basic as priming, when the two basic BP primes work as well as they do.

[50AE]

Priming a chlorate star with your prime is a total waste of chemicals. Sorry, but not everyone has money to throw to the wind.
Chlorate stars ignite with ease. They should only be primed with sulfurless meal powder to isolate them from sulfur containing burst charges.

[scientific.pyrotechnics]

Ok ok fine they are useless, but don't mind. you can use them or you can stay at BP priming, i had not much sucess with BP priming, and by the way, Velines prime should also be a big waste of money then? just because if contains a few more chemicals than Potassium Nitrate and Charcoal, the chemicals you pyroweed are most familiar with.
and most of you aren't surely not using many more than them.

I always use this prime to ensure every star catching fire, it works fine for me.

I really think you people are silly, just use it or DON'T care about the prime, everything don't need a discussion.
Seems like you nerds not have anything else to do than just blame (what you think is) beginners.

And to be "safe" with magnesium and Aluminium, Al needs to be Acidic to be stable, Mg needs some carbonate to stay stable, MgAl should also be mixed with some carbonate in the Composition.

Enough said from me.

[50AE]

I didn't speak about the perchlorate prime, which could be very useful.
I have some very hard to light star comps containin nitrate and perchlorate, I agree, they need a hot prime.
But I don't get it why you would need one for chlorate compositions. They are damn easy to light.
I didn't want to offend anybody, but not everyone of us has a cheap access to perchlorates.

[Pretty green flames]

I really think you people are silly, just use it or DON'T care about the prime, everything don't need a discussion.
Seems like you nerds not have anything else to do than just blame (what you think is) beginners.

If you didn't want your prime comps to be discussed you would've kept them to yourself. We were merely providing a cheaper alternative to the hobby pyro who may not have access to such chemicals. No need to feel insulted...

[AdmiralDonSnider]

As Veline`s Superprime has been mentioned:

Am I right that the Superprime is intented to be used as a 1-stage prime? Or is there a need for a second layer?

When I read the original text by Robert Veline, I come to the conclusion that the further statement is appropriate. But will one layer of Superprime really light all of Veline´s system stars?

How do you usually prime Veline´s stars, or similar metal fuelled types such as Buell Red? Apart from employing BP with silicon, what are useful and reliable approaches? Thank you!

[sir steve]

Sorry but I think your post should be called unscientific.pyro. What is the point of all these ingredients! Sugar with chlorate is just plain dangerous. In the whole of Valencia I have only come across 3 primes "uni prime" for AP .and either green or silver brocade for KP and for Chlorate ( yes the brocade does contain sulphur ).The last coat is always "Hiki" C6. The rule is charcoal in the prime, nitrate in the burst. My burst is KClO4 7, Al 3, KNO3 1.