131 replies to this topic

[Alexander]

Well, for one thing, lead acetate is cheaper. It's also less dangerous to handle, as long as you don't eat it, while aluminium dust is very harmful.

Lead has a long biological half life and soluable salts can be absorbed through the skin. They also taste sweet, which could cause other problems. I'm reminded of the mention in Davis of the deaths caused by mercury snakes.

Copper (I) is unstable and will naturally disproportionate to CuCl2 and Cu metal.

No, but it will react with oxygen in the air.

They do not emit bands of light, rather discrete wavelengths.

Atomic emission tends to be very narrow, observable linewidths tend to be dominated by doppler effects. Moleculer emission tends to happen in wider bands.

Table seems to be missing some details, there are a lot of mentions elsewhere of bright bands for CuCl under 460nm but I can't find details.

[a_bab]

I agree with you; atomic emisions (as in lasers) are very narrow (sub nm); that's the explanation why the gorgeous lithium color in flame is (as now) impossible to obtain in a pyrotechnic flame. It is a typical atomic emission. Just too much crap lines in there for the tiny line(s) to be visible.

Barium has several green lines; so does strontium for red, so there are plenty to play with. More over, the chlorides are red too for strontium and so on.

[CCH Concepts]

that makes alot more sence.

[digger]

Just replying to say that I have successfully made copper ascorbate, which is a greenish-blue powder that deflagrates with a blue flame combined with perchlorate alone. It was produced simply by reacting copper carbonate with vitamin C powder from a health food store (In other words, expensive) until no more CuCO3 appeared to react in the solution.

Barium Chloride reaction on the way.

Still, also, looking forward to that lactate/saccharate/fructate, once I get my Calcium Lactate in the mail.

Now then, I have just been offered Ascorbic acid (100% pure food pharma grade) at a very good price if anyone is interested in making these copper ascorbates (£10 per kg)

Edited by digger, 16 December 2009 - 11:12 PM.

[MDH]

Now then, I have just been offered Ascorbic acid (100% pure food pharma grade) at a very good price if anyone is interested in making these copper ascorbates (£10 per kg)

Hi digger,

thanks for the offer. As I said earlier copper ascorbate wasn't successful. While it is derived from a sugar acid it does not tend to exhibit a low temperature flame - I would think that copper lactate would work in its place. Do you still have access to C2-C3? That's what I was looking primarily at.

[MDH]

I have realized that some two pages ago I promised to tell you of the results of my copper sulfide tests.

I prepared copper sulfide(s) by reacting 60 mesh copper powder with 99% sulfur in a closed space over a fire for approximately 20 minutes. The resulting powder was black with a metallic blue luster. I had to use excess sulfur to convert all of the copper to the respective sulfide.

First of all, I am not sure about Dr. Toivo's assertion on another forum that copper sulfide with just potassium perchlorate and shellac will make an amazing blue. It appeared turquoise, similar to any copper oxide rich composition. I had to use dextrose, rather than shellac and a small amount of dechlorane plus as a fuel to emit the deep blue, which was indeed much nicer than that exhibited by copper sulfate or oxide. The composition burnt surprisingly fiercely, so I slowed it down with a small amount of carbonate.

Though it is quite nice - and cheap, if you can find a source of copper sulfide. Though it is not exceeding in quality when compared to the copper carboxylate salts (propionate, sorbate, etc) - those serve as both a fuel and a color donor, and their appearance shows their integration quite well.

Edited by MDH, 12 September 2010 - 10:14 PM.

[MDH]

Sorry to end up triple posting - but I've noticed a lot of exotic chemical discussion recently on the forums. Maybe we should try to unify it into this thread?

I've been mr. research lately but not a lot of "do" - I don't have a lot of time on my hands. Or the chemical resources to complete some of it. I'm trying to get an ammonium compound called "pink salt" from a local company.

The compound is Ammonium Hexachlorostannate. The chlorine content is very high, and of course, ammonium and tin have their own interesting properties.

[pyrotechnist]

Anyone tried Sodium Gluconate or know of anyway to react it with copper to create a copper gluconate etc?

[MDH]

Yes, it will. Copper gluconate is useless. I tried it once based on a suggestion from skylighter. The color is poor.

[pyrotechnist]

Have you tried barium or strontium gluconate? not sure how hygroscopic this material is though.

[pyrotechnist]

I just reacted some Creatine Eythle Ester with boric acid which seems to have produced a white salt though slightly hygroscopic not sure what it will be lol but worth a try to test it out I guess.

[MDH]

How did the results go with your experimental reagent?

[Mumbles]

Out of curiosity, why are you trying to react two acids to create an ester. Are you sure you didn't just precipitate creatine, and get left with ethyl borate?

[pyrotechnist]

The creatine was an ester all ready and not the monohydrate, as soon as the boric acid solution was added white crystals appeared that may I add are a bit hygroscopic. Well if it is ethyl borate, whatever that is , ill try it out. Shame I couldn't try pure ATP which the creatine gets converted into within the body for energy output.

Once I get some perc ill try see if the salt does anything at all.

[Mumbles]

Ethyl borate is a liquid.

You can do transesterifications with alcohols, so why not acids too? I just really have my doubts if you have creatine borate.

Another thing you may have is creatinine. Creatine hydrolyzes in acidic environment to creatinine. Normally it is done with HCl or acetic acid solution. These form acid salts with some of the nitrogens of the creatinine, which keeps them soluble until highly concentrated. Upon making the free base, it precipitates without much problem. Boric acid doesn't make traditional acid-base bonds. It's an acid in the sense that it increases H+ concentration in solution. Most traditional acids give up protons, but boric acid absorbs hydroxide molecules, consequently increasing H+.

Here is a general creatinine preparation, though perhaps not actually what you have. http://www.jbc.org/c.../3/881.full.pdf