131 replies to this topic

[dave]

I have found a supplier via Alibaba of copper thiocyanate, who is selling it for a fairly low price and is willing to supply minimum quantities of 50-100kg, which I can afford easily and would be willing to resell. Since copper thiocyanate was mentioned earlier, would the previous poster follow up on where its use is mentioned? Are there any threads?

It seem to me that it would be better than copper benzoate given its relatively high amount of copper (more than 50%).

The thiocyanates seem fairly interesting in general since they combine high reactivity with a strong metallic content.

lead thiocyanate + pot chlorate is mentioned in ellern for use as an electric fusehead composition
mercury thiocyanate can also be used.
both toxic and a sensitive mix

i would have thought the stability of the mix is questionable.
dave321

[pyrotrev]

I'm also in the process of looking at bismuth thiocyanate mixes as a safer and relatively non-toxic alternative for electric igniters - I'll let you know how it goes!

[dr thrust]

H-E-L-P!, lol can any "boffins" tell me the stoichiometric ratios of copper sulfate and potassium sorbate needed to produce copper sorbate, its for a rocket fuel i want to try, regards chris

[MDH]

I really did not use any stochiometry. I simply poured potassium sorbate into copper sulfate until no more precipitated. Classy, no?

What kind of formula did you have in mind? AP Based?

[dr thrust]

i see! did you make a solution of each? ive seen the copper benzoate video, does it precipitate in a similar manner?
ill have a bash and make a video too
the formula, potassium perchlorate based whistle, just for kicks

[vaslop2005]

the stoichemistry is incredibly close to 30 potassium sorbate: 25 copper sulfate hydrated

and when i make it i dissolve them both into de-ionised water and then combine solutions.. very simple and almost no loss of product..

i dont know about whistle, or whether its possible with copper sorbate but would love to hear the results

[MDH]

i see! did you make a solution of each? ive seen the copper benzoate video, does it precipitate in a similar manner?
ill have a bash and make a video too
the formula, potassium perchlorate based whistle, just for kicks

Essentially, yes - Though I'm not sure if copper salts are reactive enough to produce these whistling effects. Part of the effect is vibrational combustion and in theory copper salts do not require enough, and also output enough energy to create this sort of burning pattern. Of course, we've already seen how benzene rings are not the only compounds capable of this sound, so I'm still quite interested in any developments.

I think you would also need a chlorine donor. Copper sorbate alone is a weak blue. With a chlorine donor it becomes much deeper.

[Potassium chlorate]

How would you guys make barium benzoate? I just got the greatest of ideas: mixing barium chlorate with barium benzoate.

According to The Best of AFN III, pages 98-99, you can make it simply out of benzoic acid and barium carbonate, but I don't have any benzoic acid and I don't know where to get it. I do have potassium benzoate, though, and a small amount of barium carbonate.

[MDH]

Your best bet is to make the barium available in a form where a double decomposition in which the other reagent being used will become insoluble. Barium benzoate has been used in "matrix comets" before with barium chlorate. I'm not sure what the green is like but I suppose it would be very nice, though the excess barium would also require a chlorine donor.

I took an interest in artificial sweetners recently, too - in this case, acesulfame potassium - which, according to wikipedia, has three common trade names - "Sunett", "Sweet n' Low" and "Sweet one". I imagine some fairly interesting things could come out of creating a copper complex out of this.

Acesulfame K itself is pretty interesting.

Edited by MDH, 28 September 2010 - 11:14 PM.

[MDH]

I'm bumping this topic to show you all a fairly interesting video posted by a russian forum member.

Again, this demonstrates how in the right environment, copper produces intense blue at very high temperatures:

[Gary_1323]

I'm bumping this topic to show you all a fairly interesting video posted by a russian forum member.

Again, this demonstrates how in the right environment, copper produces intense blue at very high temperatures:

http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Rds_KhCR19Q

An impressive blue!

I have synthesised oxidising oxo-acid salts of Cu, specifically copper nitrate and perchlorate, but I have found that they are so hygroscopic that they form a pool of liquid within an hour of being removed from the dessiccator. This hygroscopicity detracts from their oxidising action and also makes compositions unstable. This is a little disappointing, since perchlorate salts of Cu, such as Cu perchlorate, contain their own source of chlorine, which means that a separate chlorine-donor probably would not be required.
Also, Cu has a catalytic action, much like other transition metals. This catalytic effect might sensitise a composition, rendering it dangerously unstable to heat, percussion or friction.

From my point of view, you can't beat the 'tried and tested' non-hygroscopic Cu compounds in the +2 oxidation state- copper carbonate, copper oxide and finely powdered Cu mental (Cu in its elemental form, which has an oxidation state of zero).
I have synthesised carboxylic acid salts of Cu (oxalate, salicylate and sorbate) with promising results. I'll make a video of my experimental research and post it here- stay tuned!

Edited by Gary_1323, 25 November 2011 - 11:07 PM.

[Mumbles]

The way they get around the hygroscopic nature of these things to some degree is by filling up the water binding sites with other things such as ammonia in this case. Tetraamminecopper (II) perchlorate, which is what they used in that video, is a known primary high explosive, just in case you couldn't already tell from those hammer drops.