54 replies to this topic

[RichardH08]

OK, maybe my comments didn't come out exactly as I intended, but that's a of an overreaction, Sam.

 

My point was meant to be that, in my view, you don't need to use lead nitrate when making touch paper. We all know that pyrotechnic experimentation involves the management of a wide assortment of risks. But why include something - particularly if it is both poisonous and polluting - if it isn't necessary for the effect?

 

That thread you refer to makes interesting reading, but it isn't exactly conclusive as to whether PbNO3 really was actually ever used. I also note that, further down the thread, a solution of 1 oz. KNO3 in 1 pint of water is suggested. That's about a 5% solution, which is way below being saturated - and fits pretty much exactly with what I found to be most effective when I experimented with making touch paper out of sheets of kitchen roll all those years ago. With a solution of that strength, I never had a problem with the formation of visible crystals - except, perhaps, very occasionally on the extreme bottom edge of a sheet when it had been hung up to dry.

[samboradford]

I concede, I was feeling cantankerous and for that you have my apologies.  I had a brief chat a while back with Ron L. who gave me the same information, independently - I don't think the pyrotechnics treasury description is accurate at all but I agree an approximation can be done similar to as you describe.

 

it's a matter of what exactly one wants to "reproduce" but i'm pretty sure the original did contain lead nitrate at one stage or another.

 

yep so sorry Richard if I came across as an %$se -  it's not the risk but the way it is managed and all that which you already know.

 

more to the point, there is life on the forum again !

 

Sam.

[RichardH08]

I had a brief chat a while back with Ron L. who gave me the same information, independently

...

it's a matter of what exactly one wants to "reproduce" but i'm pretty sure the original did contain lead nitrate at one stage or another.

Fair enough. If two separate sources give similar information, especially if one is Ron L, then it seems very likely that it is true. As you say, it depends on whether you just want something that works, or you want to reproduce the original as closely as possible.

 

And I agree it is good to see some activity on the forum.

[Rob.L.]

 

 

Guys,

 

That was a brilliant bit of exchange, it had me in stitches!

 

More to the point I now want to know the proportions of lead nitrate in the solution so it can be authentically recreated.

 

Look at it this way, if you don't tell me I am just going to find out the hard way....yes, actually do something....God forbid. Good job I've had a tidy up.

 

It will be a distraction from my Lasers, oscilloscope and high voltage equipment. Makes me realise how safe pyro is in comparison.

 

 

EDIT* Lloyd Sponenburgh has kindly posted a recipe on the Pyro Gear forum tonight so with his permission I will post it on here as well*

[Rob.L.]

 

 

The text below is a copy of Lloyds post on Pyro Gear Forum. I know there was a healthy exchange in this thread about the toxicity of soluble lead salts, but for the casual readers sake Richard has a point.

Lead acetate has a reputation and it's on the 'EPP list' "(Lead acetates and compounds of lead with acids from fixed oils)" blah blah blah. You know what I am saying.

 

Ah! Here we go:

From "Henley's Twentieth Century Formulas, Processes, and Trade Secrets" (1945 printing, copyright 1937)

"fuses" (or as we call it "touch paper")
Potassium Nitrate 2 parts
Lead Acetate 40 parts
Water 100 parts

Bring unsized paper to a very low simmer in the dissolved solution, then cook for 25 minutes.
Remove and dry for 'slow' paper. Simmer for longer for faster papers.

Lloyd

[Tinderbox]

So, why IS blue touchpaper blue? What's the reasoning with that particular colour?

[Arthur Brown]

Noting that one firework company used to use "last year's" wallpaper pattern books as wrapping paper, don't look too deeply for a real reason other than that blue paper happened to be available cheaply, unless you have evidence other wise. 

[Tinderbox]

Noting that one firework company used to use "last year's" wallpaper pattern books as wrapping paper, don't look too deeply for a real reason other than that blue paper happened to be available cheaply, unless you have evidence other wise. 

 

Kimbolton use wallpaper to wrap gerbs and drivers on their wheels and setpieces.

 

I just find it interesting that pretty much every UK manufacturer chose to use blue paper. I think I WILL look deeper into this and see if there is any other reason than "blue paper was cheap". If blue was cheap then why not red, green, yellow etc? And why  did every factory follow suit? Why not have a different colour touchpaper to stand out from the crowd so to speak? A lazy Sunday afternoon researching the history of blue touchpaper it is then.......(goes and puts kettle on).

[Tinderbox]

Lively topic going on over here. Contributors most welcome...

 

http://www.fireworks...r.23872/page-10

[Tinderbox]

The headline for this topic suits this brilliantly. Hurry up before they take it off iplayer!

 

https://www.bbc.co.u...-a-tudor-queen#