18 replies to this topic

[Terminator]

Now that the government has the power to effectively ban all Display Category fireworks or at the very least the more powerful and therefore the best ones, I wonder if the best defence for the fireworks industry would be to get the government to look at the New Zealand Model.

In New Zealand, low powered (Standard Type 5m fireworks) are available on general sale in the two weeks before bonfire night.

However, Display fireworks are available all the year round as over here but on a permit only basis. The advantage of the New Zealand system is that proper display fireworks of the type that were banned from public sale (ie. 3" mortars, maroons, star shells and the like) a few years ago here are available to permit holders.

This system thus keeps the powerful fireworks out of the hands of teenagers and those who behave irresponsibly whilst still allowing enthusiasts to still pursue their hobby to the max. on a semi-professional basis.

I would suggest that maybe over here we could take this a little further and require a (cheap) licence to be held by those wishing to fire display fireworks, with the licence being available only to those over 25 years old, who have passed a (cheapish - ?50 max) safety course and who have no criminal convictions. The license could be issued by the police in the same way that a shotgun license is issued.

This should be sufficient to keep the licences in the hands of those who should really have them.

A permit system could then operate in addition whereby a (free) permit was issued to license holders on request to enable purchases for events other than New Year and Bonfire night.

I know some may baulk at the idea of licensing, but isn't this better than losing our biggest, best and loudest fireworks?

Al.

[zanes]

The Government listens to animal rights too much in my opinion.

Some animal rights protesters come on TV winging about how there dog is driven craz by fireworks.
Of course, if audiences realised that they drive 4x4's that never get dirty (yes, my family owns a 4x4- a landrover series 3 with a 2.2 litre diesel engine that has just been driven accross some fields by me with 1/2 tonne of wood in the back) with 6 litre engines at 60mph past my house on a single country lane, killing wildlife, killing my cat, buggering the environment, then support would be less.

If the UK at the moment it seems to be kewl to say bad things about fireworks in the media, so much I don't watch TV new now, and rarely read newspapers.

*rant over- slow breathing*

Sorry Richard

Edited by zanes, 16 November 2003 - 02:13 PM.

[Richard H]

Zanes, could you please refrain from using such terminology, it is not endeering to our pro-fireworks cause.

[Terminator]

The animal rights lobby certainly have a loud voice. The problem is in my opinion that they're wrong about keeping pets indoors away from the bangs. As someone who shoots and thus has experience of gun dogs, I can tell you that there's nothing magic about a gun dog when it comes to bangs. They're all as frightened as any other dog.

The only difference between a gun dog and an ordinary pet is the gun dog is taken out and exposed to noise in a manner that lets them get used to it. Thus, through this and observing their owners reaction to the bang they learn not to be scared.

The whole idea of hiding pets away from bangs is thus in my opinion fatally flawed - its no wonder they're scared when they only hear bangs once a year and the owners molly coddle them like somethings wrong thus re-inforcing the fear.

Back to the licensing though, I think we have to face up to the fact that restrictions are likely to become a reality. What we need to do is formulate a model to allow pyros to continue their hobby with display fireworks of all sizes (inc mortars as per NZ model) whilst satisfying the anti lobby that large fireworks are safely out of the hands of miscreants.

Al.

[tajmiester]

I agree with the NZ model and think that this would work well but we need to do more than posting on a forum; I think we need to write to the relevant authorities and get their feedback. After all they are all human.

Tris

[Terminator]

Agreed. Perhaps a formal letter from the BPS proposing a model for the license rather than letters from individuals would carry more weight though as governments prefer to consult interested groups rather than individual citizens.

Al.

Edited by Terminator, 16 November 2003 - 02:34 PM.

[Roddy]

You know that there is an easy way to keep on firing those display fireworks, try and join a display company that operates all year round doing weddings, council events etc, that way you will end up with a licence to fire cat 4, but not from your back garden though.
The only issue you may need to consider is insurance, unless your display company will allow you to be covered on theirs.
Another advantage is you can get your hands on some good chemicals, you can modify from all the duds that don't go off, for instance I have made mines up to 6 inch from all sorts of so called dead fireworks, even the round stars from a vulcan 16 inch shell that was dismantled for safety reasons where used.

[pyrotrev]

I think Terminator has the right approach to petz, after all most (responsible) dog owners would accept that you need to give a dog some training on the road so it knows how to behave and not get considerably and permanently reduced in stature by a passing truck. So why not train your mutt to cope with bangs?. For those interested in this I would recommend www.fearoffireworks.co.uk, this is a training programme devised by a vet whose dog had this problem. And we need to be a bit considerate as well, if you know of a neighbour who has sensitive animals, do give them a bit of advance warning before you do your display.

[Phoenix]

My neighbours (who fortunatly enjoy watching my fireworks at bonfire night ) have a horse which lives about 50m away from me, so I rarely make anything loud for most of the year. (Which I don't resent at all, - I think that people who complain about firework noise for two weeks a year are grumpy old [insert appropriate term], but people who are randomly subjected to loud reports with no warning all year have every right to complain). If I do want to test something loud (eg a shell) I go for a walk to my "testing site" that is a mile from anywhere in all directions.

However, whilst I stick to quiet stuff for most of the year, my birthday party display tends to include shells, rockets and mines etc, and I have to do this nearby, as getting one item to the middle of nowhere is one thing, but a large display + audience is another.

I found that a solution to the horse's inherant pyrophobia is to start the display with a string of small (and not very loud) BP firecrackers. Whilst this doesn't have quite the same dramatic impact as salute shell, the horse apparantly (the owner stayed with it throughout the display) didn't mind the crackers at all, and by the time the big stuff started going it wasn't a shock to it. It happily munched on hay throughout the 15 minute display. And no, it doesn't just not mind bangs - a while ago some unidentified totally inconsiderate crettin started letting off airbombs within metres of its field, and it remained freaked for days. They were either incredibly stupid, or deliberately out to scare it.

[The_Djinn]

Just straying from the animal side of things to the human side which objects to fireworks, you normally find that these people have been subjeted to ignorant individuals that for whatever reason seem to think it is great to let of fireworks all hours of the night. You will find that most people are happy to put up with the odd bang or display any time of year as long as it is done at a respectable hour. I know that im my neighbourhood we have idiots setting off stuff at 2 in the morning which annoys the hell out of me as it wakes my kides up.
At the end of the day I love firworks but I am thankfull that new legislation will prohibit them from being set off after certain hours. Atleast this way everyone gets what they want, we get to have fun and everyone gets to have a peacefull night sleep.

I am sure there will still be people that will insist on setting stuff off all hours and unfortunately these people will just fuel the minds of the anti firework campaingers.

Mark

[Stuart]

I make a rule of not setting anything loud off after 9:00PM. Even then it wont be much. Ofcourse the only trouble is that when summer comes around, (which I can wait for personally as I hate this rainny and cold weather), then it wont be getting dark until 10:00PM - 11:00PM. Oh well, will just have to play with smoke more in the summer for my visual effects

Stuart

[Yugen-biki]

It does not matter how careful we are. I also have my far away launching ground. The problem is all the "stupid" and/or drunk people. Here fireworks are sold 3-4 days before "the day". After crakers were banned a few years ago we experience no trubble the days before "the day". The danger comes when everyone who has some fireworks gathers on a small space and fire everything at the same time near houses with pets in them. Peolple seem to lose there mind just for an hour or 2 during one day a year.
A license would help out great. But untill our stupid goverment has foud that out they have banned all pyro for sure :-(. Just like crakers and fireworks containing more then 40g comp were. :-(

Edited by Yugen-biki, 22 January 2004 - 08:46 AM.

[chrissw]

The simple answer with pets is to make sure that if your cat/dog is allowed out when people are setting off fireworks, make certain they can get into your house easily and curl up by the fire/on the bed/in the basket or wherever until it's all over. Most animals will be frightened by unexpected bangs, it's just a matter of providing them with a safe haven as and when they need to use it.

Caged animals should have a blanket or something put over the cage so the isolation from the source of noise makes them feel safer, also you could try moving the cage into your house (if its in a shed) wherever possible so the occupant(s) are closer to you than the sources of the bangs.

Of course if there is some dickbrain in your area chucking fireworks deliberately at animals, then call the RSPCA immediately, you stand a chance of getting a quicker response from them than from the police in these matters.

[The_Djinn]

When I lived in South Africa, the RSPCA had a simple solution. Keep your pets indoors with the radio or the TV on. The reasoning behind it is that it is not so much the noise itself that scaeres the animals but more so the sudden loud report. By having the radio or TV on it keeps constant activity so that with fireworks going off outside the animals are not subjected to sudden noise.

People around me here in the UK seem to do the same and they say that they have no problems with there pets.
Sit in a room with a sleeping dog and clap your hands, it will jump to its feet. Try the same thing but with the radio or TV on and the dog will normally just cock its ear at you or open one eye to see whats up then dose off again.

Mark

[seymour]

Sory to open this old thread up, but Terminator, how did you get all that info on the pyro laws in NZ? I have been trying to get pyro laws for a while but have had little luck. Do you also know where to get info regarding ameture pyro in my country?

PS, the two weeks is shrinking, last year only nine days, and the selection of legal fireworks is shrinking. Every year there are a few less fireworks in the shop. mainly the ones that people modified, an act that I am ashamed to have done frequently in the past. But have not done for some time and will not do ever again, for obvious reasons. but I am not ashamed to admit it, for it is the truth and i may be able to "convert" others.