18 replies to this topic

[phildunford]

I know you can't expect much for the price, but I've just done a quick PM on the Lidl Nite Theatre rocket pack.

What a swizz!

Nearly half the length of the 7" rocket is completely empty. There are three grams of tiny stars. The motor is packed in a nylon tube about 2" long, with about 1.5" of composition. .4" bore.

The ones that appear to have a 1" ball shell on the end do.. Except it's completely empty.

If they were honest and made them half the size, they could probably double or triple the payload. The motor is mainly lifting cardboard packaging.

Fortunately I bought them to repack with a flashpowder load as a loud start to a display. Those who expect a respectable performance will be most dissapointed.

This can only bring the industry into further disrepute.

"Practicus" will be publishing the full PM in the next Spark, but I thought people ought to know what they are buying. I'm sure (unfortunately) that this is not an isolated case.

[David]

I'm sure (unfortunately) that this is not an isolated case.

It won't be.

New spec means, I think that the total NEC for a 1.4G rocket must be under 20g- thats the total, not the "payload."

So they are all going to be limited by that performance.

Overdressing rockets has always gone on, though, it's part of the nature of it all. However, in the past with a bit of a flash burst and a decent peony or whatever the performance was acceptable, so it didn't tend to be an issue.

But yeah--- rockets are fast heading towards the iceburg--- people are going to buy "big" packs of 1.4G, and be put off - "this is shite" etc.

the exception is 1.3G rockets, and rockets "meshed" so as to be 1.4G.

But Lidl, the land of 39p Cola, good rockets? Nope!

Edited by David, 19 October 2009 - 09:22 PM.

[David]

What was the actually name of the pack?

Was it Nite Theatre?

TNT is "The Nite Theater" so perhaps thats not the actual name. I can't find it on LOCEF.

[phildunford]

TNT is "The Nite Theater" so perhaps thats not the actual name. I can't find it on LOCEF.

TNT - Ah! Shows what I know about retail fireworks - lol!

The rockets say "Starburst Rocket" & come in a 5 pack.

[David]

TNT - Ah! Shows what I know about retail fireworks - lol!

The rockets say "Starburst Rocket" & come in a 5 pack.

For £4.99 for 5, it really is going to be just a very basic selection. Sort of like the 39p cola!!

[pyrotechnist]

I do what Phil is doing and take these humps of cheap Chinese imported crap and load them myself. I dissected a Weco rocket from Aldi last year, forgot the name of the pack but it was the largest rockets they had. Upon taking it apart I found that the large cardboard casing contained a tiny 1.5" spherical shell which was only half filled with stars and BP placed within a red bag slotted on the time fuse and a piece of card jammed in the second hemisphere. The rocket wasn't TO bad but the break was not whole nor large at all. If your going to pack a 1.5" shell inside of a 7" long tube then fill the bloody shell and not leave it half empty. There is just no calling for such practices and is dam right criminal in my eyes. The TNT rockets where also like this much like Phill said.

[phildunford]

I know you only get what you pay for. I think my point is that this seems like intentionally misleading the buyer.

In the 'old days' (violins out!) if I bought a cheap rocket (like a Lightning Chaser) I knew it would only have a motor with one star - or no garnature at all. If it had a heading I knew it would be full of stars. You could see what you were buying.

[David]

I think my point is that this seems like intentionally misleading the buyer.

Yes, thats exactly what it is, I'm afraid. Make it LOOK bigger, so people think it's better.

It's a common trick with fountains, too, especially selection box fountains. Likewise the bigger Single Ingition Fireworks- some of them have a lot of fresh air inside.

However, this doesn't apply to all- Hercules , Ultimate Devastation, Crazy Horses, Tiger's Revenge- no empty space there- and all great fireworks.

What worries me with stuff like the "window dressed" rocket packs is that it's going to lead to a let down on bonfirenight for many people. Hopefully this won't put too many people off using fireworks again.

I picked up a 6 pack yesterday- dated 7, so presumed new spec, Locef have them down as 1.4G, and at the price I was expecting something titchy. Wrong! The burst with a nice, echoing peony- old school style. However, I also feel there might be an issue with their performance, so I won't mention the name.

.....end of the day, and it's the old cliche- buy from a reliable supplier, who will be able to advise as to what the rockets actually do.

[Nathan-NUFC]

i bought one pack and set one off to see if i should buy some more, and yea they are a real disapointment compared to last years £10 rockets from lidl, blue apollo from benstar. Quite brilliant.

[phildunford]

Thought the next size up 'War Hawk' might be better.



Impressive cone - must have lots of stars!



Well actually, nothing but fresh air!

The marks on the body show the total length of nozzle + motor + garnature, so even that's not full!

How to they get away with this blatant deception?

[David]

How do they get away with this blatant deception?

If the Pyro Society wanted to start any form of campaign against such practices , I would guarantee my support.

[phildunford]

As a post-script to this story, I wrote to Lidl as follows:

Dear Sir/Madam,



I am writing on behalf of the UKPS with regards to the rocket packs that were sold at your shops this November. Many of our members have complained about such products.
I am not criticising Lidl in particular, as many companies sell similar products, but companies such as yours, with huge purchasing power have the means to change things for the better.
I have enclosed some pictures which illustrate the problem.
The rockets would appear to have a large heading of stars, but when you look inside, the headings are completely empty, along with quite a bit of the motor tube! To give this it’s kindest interpretation, this is misleading, suggesting that you are getting a much larger rocket than you really are.
There has been recent legislation, making it difficult to transport rockets that have more than 20g of active components, effectively making it impossible to retail large rockets at normal outlets.
The type of rocket you sold this year gives the appearance of the older type of rocket, but can only disappoint customers with its performance and generally give fireworks the reputation of being poor value for money.
We would request that if you can, you ask your suppliers to provide products without this ‘window dressing’ so that customers get a realistic idea of what the performance of the product will be.

Regards,
Phil Dunford

I've just received the following, which is, I think a pretty fair reply - maybe if lots of us wrote to lots of supermarkets something might get done?

Edited by phildunford, 12 December 2009 - 02:36 PM.

[David]

It's good that you took the time to write to them- and good they took the time to reply.

I myself have written to supermarkets in the past, and generally recieved polite but no-commital replies- in one instance my letter was past to the fireworks company, who in their reply specifically mentioned "window dressing" by name, and commented that it was standard practice in the industry.

[David]

Also- did you fire any of the rockets unaltered ?

If so, how did they perform?

[phildunford]

Also- did you fire any of the rockets unaltered ?

If so, how did they perform?

Motors were pretty nippy, but the headings were poor. The tiny stars were of course very short lived. The performance of the ones with the large pretend cone were no better than the ones with the small pretend cone.

I put 7g of flash in them and used a flight of 40 of them to start a show - now that was quite effective...