36 replies to this topic

[CCH Concepts]

I've seen quite a few chlorate flash powders, but not bothered because I'm worried they would detonate on lift. what about to give a report on a bottle rocket, as theres alot less of a force exerted what this be safe?

[cooperman435]

why use chlorate at all? Its un neccecery when perc is much safer in nearly all scenarios.

It wont detonate in either case anyway

[Arthur Brown]

With your yet limited experience playing with flash is bomb disposal by trial and error -Not to be recommended!

[CCH Concepts]

to be honest my first step will be getting my rockets motors working properly. it more a point of interest, I've only ever made KClO4 flash. never tried KClO3 due to the inherent problems. I'm sure it will be a while before my motors are working well.

one comment i would like to make. Arthur i very much appreciate your input and respect your knowledge. when advised On the forum of the dangers of a process or compositions i take heed in what is sad. or int he case of the picric acid thread completely drop the idea. but you replies unlike most others alway have a air of elitism and negativity rather then the positive criticism the other members put forward. is there a ready why you respond to my posts in this way?

[wjames]

he did that with me too mate.

More than likely saved my fingers(+ hands + face)

I pestered him about flash for weeks + weeks...and all he did was put me off, and tell me to work on my bp.


I rekon he is just looking out for you mate...i wouldnt take it personally.

[CCH Concepts]

but to be honest people are going to try flash, its a huge part of pyro. surly its better to make sure people are going to do it safely and correctly. rather then them go else where like youtube. because unfortunately people will find youtube tutorials way before they find this site.

[seymour]

CCH, I understand where you are coming from, and you may have a good point if this was a different hobby, but take a few more moments to re-consider what we are doing.

Our hobby involves the manufacture of explosives. So many things can go wrong. Additionally, you are most likely doing this outside of the law.

Arthur has a very good reason, it is because he is concerned about our hobby, and even more so, he is concerned about the public, and lastly, and possibly most importantly, he is concerned about your personal safety. Certainly he can be to the point on many issues, and considering what they are, such as the Chlorate flash and picric acid/picrates, he is filling a very important role.

Remember, that outside the understanding confines of this forum, in the world of the public (particularly the UK), Many people would consider Arthur brown to be an extremist supporter of explosives manufacture!

[Mumbles]

If you think flash is a "huge part of pyro" you have a rather distorted view of what we do. Colors, sparks, and shimmers are what we do. Salutes play a very minor role in the grand scheme of things. I am not saying they are useless, or not fun or exhilarating, but there are very few instances that dictate their use.

Arthur is trying to keep everyone safe and promote the hobby. Salutes tend to be the favored devices of the mad bombers and morons, simply out for the noise and destruction. They are simply interested in big booms without any respect for the art or knowledge of the hobby. Part of promoting the hobby is discouraging these people, and trying to steer them toward the promise land. You've been asking about some rather dangerous stuff lately. There is no reason to make salutes from chlorate flash. It brings additional risk and danger for no additional benefit.

[portfire]

You have your answer with the 2 above posts CCH......Learn to crawl before you go BASE jumping!!! Whats wrong with Fountains and wheels?

[Mortartube]

I have mixed views regarding the above posts. Certainly avoid chlorate based flash when safer alternatives are available and get experience with less sensitive compositions before making flash.

But flash although not a huge part of what we do, does have more of a place than just salutes. It is used as a booster to produce hard breaks of shells and rocket heads usually with BP coated rice hulls or rice crispies etc. It is unfair to assume that it is only going to be used for salutes.

Like many things in life, explosive compositions need respect and the safest working practices possible. Flash is one that you cannot afford to make mistakes with, but if respected and the rules are followed it is a useful tool in our arsenal.

Get used to all that BP and it's derived compositions have to offer first and THEN consider flash, BP will keep you going for ages on various projects such as fountains, rockets, hummers, stars, drivers, even BP lances and portfires.

[Mumbles]

I had considered that when writing, but given the nature of the discussion, focused on salutes. The use of flash to boost shells is in no way critical. It's not going to make or break a shell, nor is it in anyway required, just a convenient shortcut. Flash can't make up for inadequate construction techniques.

This of course is getting quite off topic here.

Edited by Mumbles, 02 November 2009 - 02:34 AM.

[Arthur Brown]

With flash, you will make bangs. Sooner or later someone will complain to the police or the council that you are making explosions and you will be at risk of loss of liberty. If you interview badly it could be up to 42 days solitary while they hold you without charge under the Anti-terrorism legislation. (After 42 days consider whether you would have a job, house/mortgage etc left either even if released without charge)

With Flash also you have one of the most energetic compounds used in fireworks and one of the most sensitive. Even modern flash mixes are powerful, the older ones can be too sensitive for safe use - especially when safer ones are available.

Several of the more experienced pyros that I know have had accidents with flash, I wouldn't want one to bite you.

[CCH Concepts]

I think firstly i should be more careful in my wording when talking about flash. I should have asked if there is any advantage to using chlorate flash in a rocket header. Secondly 99 percent of my time was spent on effect, getting my lift working, refining the processes. If you read the post on picric acid i only brought it up once another member mentioned it had legit use. My interest was firstly what use, as far as i knew it was a HE. Secondly if i could be used could it be a good coloring oxidizer like BrClO3. I have much more pride in producing the Valine color spectrum, than any bang. Bangs are easy. I just think maybe i dont always put my self over in the best light. I have been doing this for about the last year most of which as a member. I am awear thats a 10 th of most members. Thats the main reason im a member.

[Creepin_pyro]

but to be honest people are going to try flash, its a huge part of pyro. surly its better to make sure people are going to do it safely and correctly. rather then them go else where like youtube. because unfortunately people will find youtube tutorials way before they find this site.

Fair enough, but if you do a search and read a little of the forums archive, you will find the same advice over and over again - if you must mess with flash, do it in small amounts, with standard 70/30 PERchlorate! Adding exotic / needlessly sensetive chemicals is not advised!

The whole initial posts about flash and metal casings, then moving onto gallic acid and chlorates - all with near to no experience - doesn't exactly inspire confidence!

[Arthur Brown]

People are going to make flash. The ingredients are retail or on-line purchasable the formula is common knowledge, the method is also all over several web sites.

However that does not make it best practise!